Protecting the NHS?

[Racoonworld]

Back in March we were told lockdown was to protect the NHS, would be reviewed every 3 weeks and likely to be for up to 12 weeks. Well it is now 5 months later, the NHS never got overwelmed, and we are still in lockdown. Yes I know things are opening up but we still have massive restrictions on our lives, including not being able to hug family and friends and not being able to see more than one household inside (England), which over summer is fine but coming up to winter is obviously not going to be sustainable for most people. Many have had education disrupted, healthcare disrupted, jobs lost, family and friends separated, and I'm sure many more consequences.

What are we all/the government waiting for? There may never be a vaccine or effective treatment. Do they really expect people to live like this for years if there is no vaccine? Surely they need to give us a plan and timeline for what they expect of us or no one will stick to the rules for much longer.

@RunningAwaywiththeCircus all patients were reviewed before starting chemotherapy.
It was quite easy to review weekly blood results for example and discuss by telephone. We still carried out BMAs and all staging tests.
I agree the disparity is disappointing.

NHs is a mess and as a result of I don't know what, patient care isn't there. And when you finally manage to get a bit of care, the process is batshit.

Arrange a blood test, so far so good, and finally they have implemented an appointment system. Don't even need to pop along with the blood test form, it's all there waiting and labels printed there and then.

Wait up to a week for results. This is where things get interesting. Text telling you result ready, call surgery to arrange telephone consultation, so far so good.

Talk to the GP, who tells you oh shit your results aren't good. Make a joke about yea not as bad as expected considering I'm not getting any other treatment outside mh.

GP says I need another appointment, to call the surgery back and say you need an appointment and what to tell reception.

(Yes I am now confused)

Called back the surgery (after listening to the message about trying to keep the lines free). Explained the situation to the receptionist, ah yes, I will put you on the list and Tim from admin will call you back, probably won't be until next week.

I asked, no-one could be bothered to try and come up with an explanation. The call back from Tim wouldn't be as bad if say the call happened towards the end of the week. But 10:30 am on a Monday morning? All because they have to physically see me.

And if I ever hear from Renal without me going the a&e route, I will pass on how it's going. So far, since April the only contact I have had, along with others in my medical team, is the answering machine, and when we are very lucky we are rewarded with the ability to leave a message.

I was on another thread the other day. Reasons from some who claimed to be nhs said it was government policies that closed these departments down. Which of course doesn't explain the inconsistencies across the country.

It amazes me the extent to which people are absolutely fixated on 'exponential growth' and possible deaths, when in order to prevent those fictional possible deaths (and they are fictional, there is no evidence at all that they would ever happen and they haven't happened anywhere in the world) actual deaths are happening. So in order to prevent covid deaths, deaths from cancer, suicide, heart attacks, strokes and a whole range of other illnesses have been increased and will continue to increase for months and possibly years to come. What makes a cancer death more acceptable than a covid death? Nothing of course, it's just that people are so pathologically fixated on covid that they can't actually see or acknowledge those deaths at all. And that's before you start to count the cost, both in deaths and illness, of recession, job losses and people stuck in abusive situations without any outside contact for months on end.

The utter madness of it is mind boggling.

@RunningAwaywiththeCircus

Exactly *@TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair* and with increased testing/antibody testing, Covid looks less deadly by the day.

It will be difficult to concede that we fucked the economy and suspended all healthcare over something less likely than flu to prove fatal, so no doubt we’ll keep up the charade a bit longer.

Covid is not less likely than the flu to prove fatal.

I completely agree. The majority of people that died seem to have been a case of of dying this year instead of next year. Obviously with no restrictions there would have been more deaths, but depending how you read the Swedish data, it's also possible that we'll see lower all cause mortality for a few years after this is over, so it's rather questionable whether this degree of economic, mental and social harm was worth it. Death is tragic, yes, but to what extent can we ever master a disease like this without giving up the stuff that makes life worth living.

@Tootletum

I completely agree. The majority of people that died seem to have been a case of of dying this year instead of next year. Obviously with no restrictions there would have been more deaths, but depending how you read the Swedish data, it's also possible that we'll see lower all cause mortality for a few years after this is over, so it's rather questionable whether this degree of economic, mental and social harm was worth it. Death is tragic, yes, but to what extent can we ever master a disease like this without giving up the stuff that makes life worth living.

I think this is both callous and incorrect.

The fact someone had an underlying condition does not mean they had a limited life expectancy.

I absolutely agree, OP.

The NHS very quickly became the National Covid Service back at the start of lockdown and for far too long the only medical condition you could have was Covid 19. My elderly parents needed medical treatment for other serious issues too and getting it certainly wasn't easy.

@AnyFucker My 84 year old DM needed a blood test since March She finally had it last Friday. I have an ear infection which i treated myself at home. With ibuprofen which brought the swelling down and a hot water bottle. Was excrutiatingly painful .

What did for me was the news item about the 25 year old woman who died of bowel cancer because of treatment being suspended.

I think this is both callous and incorrect

The fact someone had an underlying condition does not mean they had a limited life expectancy

This

It's just awful, @HelenaDove

Given people who are unable to social distance in work don't have to, I think the same should apply for funerals

Yep The builders on our estate at the moment get to have their many breaks in a tiny site office with no social distancing and no masks.

What did for me was the news item about the 25 year old woman who died of bowel cancer because of treatment being suspended

But she was in the shielding list, so according to some other posters she'd be dead if not this year to next.

Are the exceptionally vulnerable only worth saving in some circumstances? Do their deaths only count in some contexts?

I don't actually know what the situation is in the health services of other European countries.

It doesn't feel too much to ask for covid plus urgent treatment. I'm not sure we should have to choose!

But elective/non urgent is different.

When does "non urgent" or "routine" become urgent ?

I would say that a child, eg, who has not been seen face to face for 6-9 months is edging over into "urgent". That is certainly the case in my line of work.

@AnyFucker

When does "non urgent" or "routine" become urgent ?

I would say that a child, eg, who has not been seen face to face for 6-9 months is edging over into "urgent". That is certainly the case in my line of work.

I guess sometimes that is the case. On the other hand I have had a skin thing gone unseen and that's ok.

I keep thinking back to the pandemic preparedness report that was never dealt with.

We were not ready for this pandemic, unlike other countries. It is very depressing.

Perhaps if we had prepared, we could have had protocols in place.

I could understand if it was just elective surgery that was completely cancelled. It's also essential surgery that has remained cancelled for months.

It's those essential face to face appointments that have been cancelled. When the gp said to me this week over the phone, I need to be seen. It was nothing new. My consultants who are still working are saying the same, but it's not their departments who are delaying things. I've been hearing that I need to be seen since March/April. I get one step closer next week when someone calls me back to make an appointment. I know the outcome of that appointment I need to be seen by X department, which on their screens confirms there is no contact from X department.

Who is this protecting?

I was advised to shield for my protection. Ok yea now what. Left forgotten until I'm no longer here to be a burden?

The mental and physical impact on my kids is immense, I am their only family. One of mine possibly through stress, collapsed in work and had to be resuscitated. Early 20's, over a week in hospital with no visitors allowed until they relented because of her mh. When she was admitted, she wasn't tested for covid. It was only after she had been on ward and went off for a walk that a test happened. Same with other patients who were admitted. On her walk, she met no-one.

Totally agree with the OP ....such a ridiculous state of affairs right now

I work in the nhs
My role was over whelmed - I broke down In tears on more than one occasion

Our waiting room was empty but that doesn't mean my job stopped.
I worked bank holidays when my role usually isn't required then. This was as a spike was expected so hospitals were expected to be busy so we had to be open
As we were open chemists had to be open

An unknown virus spread across most of the world. We had to protect the NHS or where would you expect to go when you're sick?
They didn't have enough ventilation machines to cope with what they expected

No one knew what was going to happen next

We haven't introduced face to face appointments yet- this means shorter waiting times, more patients can speak to a GP, accessible for those who do not work local or can't get out of work.
If a face to face appointment is needed they now run to time
Also less patients don't attend, they will answer their phone or call back if they missed their call

The back log from hospitals closing clinics as their consultants were on the covid wards are being work into and patients who were waiting on things are slowly being seen
The NHS never works quickly as it is an overused and under appreciated system where people want things straight away and have no understanding of the way it works.

Track and trace one of the biggest jokes that cost how much?

Whatever they've since cobbled together is pathetic.

Track and trace on a global level was already in place. To protect the nhs why didn't they use this to begin with?

From where I sit, every single step they have taken to date has been done for one of them/their mates make money. It's never been about protecting the nhs or anyone else aside from their self interests.

The oh look at me things they are doing to protect others is the stuff they have been advised to for a long time. There's even detailed plans from whoever European whatever about how to run hospitals safely and quickly. Instead of the billions wasted on track and trace this could have been invested to use those models to say make schools safer.

The dineout scheme I'm very dubious about. Independent places remained open throughout and many I use have said how great business was. Unlike the chains they adapted their business rather than furlough. And aside from holding onto a job for a bit longer, who is it really protecting? We already know, to keep school open these will be closed again on a local level.

It's horrible having to wait for surgery. However if you get covid 19 around the time of having surgery, your chances of dying are much higher than normal - www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2020/05/covid-19-patients-who-undergo-surgery-are-at-increased-risk-of-postoperative-death-global-study.aspx

That's why hospitals aren't rushing to clear their backlogs really fast. They have to space operations out to leave theatres empty for longer between operations, and take the most extreme PPE precautions. Covid may be a trivial illness for many people but it's not for people who are having operations.

People who are keen to get back to normal and want us all to tolerate higher infection levels in the community to enable this should bear that in mind. Non-covid hospital treatment including surgery depends on there being low infection rates.

Tolerating high infection rates won't mean that the NHS can suddenly start getting back to normal more quickly and catch up with all the routine surgery. It will have the opposite effect - it will force more operations to be delayed, and it will put the people who do have them at greater risk of dying post-operatively - even otherwise healthy people who would normally not be in a high risk category for covid.

How is the NHS being protected when they aren't treating people?
As we all know some stuff if not treated becomes infectious. The longer it's left the worse it gets and of course as we know, more people catch it.

We are constantly reminded that flu season will be a nightmare. Well no shit. How many people are being denied medical treatment at the moment? When it comes to a lot of those health issues we know untreated the person declines. To be able to fight things like flu we need our immune systems, we need to be healthy, well as healthy as we can.

@Didkdt

I think instead of saying we got it wrong because the NHS wasn't overwhelmed we should be proud we got it right. That 111 GPs Hot clinics and the hospitals co-ordinating and the vulnerable shielding meant we managed this.

As well as lots of people not recieving medical care they desperately needed, yeah.

@eeeyoresmiles
Thank you. That explains the ''it;s the guidelines' thing that often gets mentioned.

Waiting lists don't bother me, even when delays happen. It's surgery, sometimes there's complications (although it's usually me).

Yea it can be hard at times getting hold of the ward/consultant, it's to be expected. They deal with emergencies.

It's just the actual unknown. I've had times when I've done a little cheer because I've got on the waiting list, a bigger cheer when it's not that long. At least it was something to look forward to in a way. One step closer, hopefully, to having things fixed.

Now what is there to look forward to? I cannot make no plans for next week, never mind Christmas and next year summer holiday, fingers crossed.

Please don't feel I'm aiming those questions/comments at you. They aren't really aimed at anyone. I frustrated, I've had enough, we cannot carry on like this indefinitely. I talk to friends abroad, and of course there has been local disruptions, nothing like this. (I say talk, muted at the moment cos I'm not sure if they are serious)

I think the slogan should have been to protect the nation. My husband was admitted to hospital late April after a heart attack, where I can assure you it was a very scary time for all staff and patients. Patients being admitted were not tested unless they had symptoms, so were put into wards where staff were just wearing normal masks were treating the unknown. We do now need to protect the NHS as we need to start working on the backlog of patients still waiting to be seen and treated.