Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Some reassuring news about schools being really safe

319 replies

TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair · 23/08/2020 21:14

I know there's a huge amount of (justifiable) worry about schools going back soon and I saw a piece of news today which deserved it's own thread in case people wanted some nice news.

Public Health England has looked at the evidence from June when 1,646,000 pupils went back to 23,400 schools in total. They found just 67 cases of the virus as a result of that. Only 0.01% of schools actually experienced an outbreak. That means that not only are children exceptionally unlikely to suffer any serious effects from catching the virus if they do get it but they are also really, really likely to catch it or spread it around in school. I know that won't reassure absolutely everyone, particularly if you have a child with additional health needs, but it is so lovely to be able to look at the evidence and say that, in terms of this virus, schools are actually really low risk.

Story from here www.gov.uk/government/news/study-finds-very-low-numbers-of-covid-19-outbreaks-in-schools?utm_source=01ce0967-35e6-401b-92c7-8d5c486b1fe3&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
latticechaos · 25/08/2020 07:56

@Vinoonasunnyday

Practically no one is social distancing anywhere you go now it’s only teachers demanding it and I teach FE!

The same people I know complaining break similar rules daily

Our local FE college is splitting groups in half, so clearly a lot more space for distancing than if they were all in together.

I can't do anything about what other people do, but my family is distancing and that's because I prefer to let others catch the virus if they want to whilst we avoid until treatment is better and more is known.

Charliescar · 25/08/2020 08:01

Omg ! You are catastrophising this !!!

EducatingArti · 25/08/2020 10:07

@Vinoonasunnyday

Practically no one is social distancing anywhere you go now it’s only teachers demanding it and I teach FE!

The same people I know complaining break similar rules daily

I am in Greater Manchester. Whilst I agree that not everyone is keeping to the social distancing rules, I am and most of my friends are. Cases are increasing too much here and we have extra rules. This is what happens when people don't keep social distancing rules. If you are in a part of the country where cases are currently very low, then you are extremely lucky, but don't expect it to stay that way, especially if no-one is socially distancing!
FrippEnos · 25/08/2020 12:17

@Charliescar

Omg ! You are catastrophising this !!!
Posters are just laying out the facts for you.
latticechaos · 25/08/2020 12:19

@Charliescar

Omg ! You are catastrophising this !!!
Who is catastrophising what? Confused
Foobydoo · 25/08/2020 12:31

@Charliescar

Omg ! You are catastrophising this !!!
I don't think considering the full implications is catastrophising. The propaganda around school is that children don't usually seriously ill from covid. That is fair enough but they are omitting the fact that children can and will spread the virus to vulnerable adults! This is not acceptable. I want my dd back in school but without better mitigation we are heading for a shitshow.
TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair · 25/08/2020 12:36

I'm still here and I've read your responses. I just wanted to say I appreciate that lots of you have looked at what I've posted and gone 'nope.' That's fair enough. There are lots of different opinions on all this and even some hugely well-respected and knowledgeable experts can't agree on certain aspects of the virus so if people don't feel reassured by what I posted then I accept that. I hope things end up being safer than you're all fearing because goodness knows people shouldn't have to feel scared sending their children into school should they? I certainly don't think the government have handled this well, incidentally. If I'm a Tory bot, I'm not going to last long in my job given my opinion of this government.

I will just say this. If someone posts something that you think is utter crap, it's enough to take it down with facts . You then win the argument. I think most people on this thread have been perfectly courteous, by the way, but a couple of posters have resorted to twattery to make their point. I'm thinking of What I don't understand is how wishingchair can be so dim and Wonderful name, OP. I see you sitting in your chair, eyes scrunched up and wishing like mad. I mean, really? I definitely don't expect most posters to have any clue who I am but I am posting repeatedly on other threads on MN with reference to the fact I'm experiencing severe mental health problems right now. Which isn't even actually relevent because basic politeness should be in place in any argument. But it's not necessary is it? We're all feeling fraught at the moment, it should still be possible to argue your case without that kind of thing.

Anyway, lastly....

If you can explain why the virus won't spread with no social distancing, I'm happy to listen???

I think I have a few points in reply to that. One, the virus is at really very low levels in society. There are huge swathes of the country where it's practically non-existent. If the virus isn't in your county, it can't actually spread around your schools. And yes, it might well spread elsewhere and creep into other parts of the country but if contact testing does ok then that spread won't necessarily be exponential. You can call me naive or optimistic saying that but we've had MONTHS of people mixing more and so far no drastic increase in virus numbers/deaths. I'm not sticking my fingers in my ears and going 'it's all going to be fine' while people drop dead around me in the streets - there are lots of reasons to be hopeful.

Two - the thing I first linked to included nurseries, I think? You can't tell me toddlers know how to social distance. The fact that there was minimal spread even in those settings makes me feel optimistic, particularly given some of the children in schools and nurseries were the children of doctors and nurses so likely to have been exposed to the virus. If you don't want to feel any optimism having read that, that's a personal choice. I am going to choose to take comfort from it - my friend's little girl starts nursery soon and so I do have a vested interest in these settings being as safe as possible. I do feel she will be safe. It's still the case that children are staggeringly unlikely to experience serious problems if they actually catch the virus, plus even with this virus around, people of working age are 'only' dying in line with their age group's usual life expectancy (obviously, I don't like the idea of anyone dying, before anyone picks up on that).

Three - Even, worse case scenario, if the virus does spread significantly (I don't think anyone can claim it won't a bit but I'd love to think local lockdowns will prevent it really spiralling) then we seem to be doing better at keeping people alive - you can read all sorts of doctors online saying a much smaller percentage of those who catch the virus are now dying. So if you said to me that schools don't have enough social distancing I'd still like to be optimistic that the consquences won't be that terrible. This is a horrible virus with catastrophic consequences for an unlucky minority but for most it really is not serious, with a news article today saying that in terms of just the last few weeks, 0.3% of people who get the virus are dying (and most of those will be frail and elderly). I know that's a whole debate in itself though and there are a million other threads where you can wrangle with that point of view to your heart's content.

Anyway, I am going to leave it there. Not really hoping to change anyone's mind at this point, I only wanted to post up the first link I did because I genuinely hoped it might reassure a few people. But it's annoying when an OP doesn't come back to the thread so I did want to respond.

OP posts:
Lweji · 25/08/2020 12:48

I don't think any experts disagree that schools open with fewer students and effective social distancing does not mean that schools open with all the students and minimal distancing will be as safe.

Experts opinions are based in observations. While they might differ in the interpretation, most opinions won't be widely different and will change according to mounting evidence.

Lweji · 25/08/2020 12:53

Nurseries also tend to be smaller than most schools, with different years mixing.

Counties aren't self contained units.
The virus is in the country, numbers will rise if basic measures are not implemented.
Nobody wants new lockdowns, local or not. It's much better to prevent a rise in the first place.

And I'm not saying not to reopen schools at all. But schools must open safely.

CallmeAngelina · 25/08/2020 12:58

I mean, Devon and Cornwall reported low numbers a while back. But they're now heaving with holiday-makers from all over the country, from areas with far higher rates of infection, so you don't have to be Einstein to predict the likely result.

Kashtan · 25/08/2020 13:17

@TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair
Virtually no one on this thread will have read your other threads, this is a huge board. It unreasonable to cite “severe mental health issues” and be kind when you yourself did not hold back in berating other posters
One of your comments “ Gosh there's really no getting through to some people! This is really useful data. It's evidence schools are really safe. If you still want to worry about this, that's your prerogative but I think it's nonsensical not to be reassured by these findings on some level. “

That’s not exactly being kind is it. You can’t expect other people to treat you with kid gloves whilst getting on with your own digs

latticechaos · 25/08/2020 13:26

@TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair

It was me who originally asked you to explain why the virus won't spread without social distancing.

Your answer doesn't do that.

  1. Rates are low due to social distancing. However rates have already risen since lockdown was eased.
  2. Nurseries are not changing, it is schools that are changing - a massive new mixing of households creating many many new transmission chains
  3. That is about treatment, not about whether the virus will spread

I'm sorry but I just don't feel reassured by things that are not factually accurate. The virus will be transmitted in schools, social distancing is what stops the virus spreading.

IncludeWomenInTheSequel · 25/08/2020 13:36

To be fair if you had posted in that tone in the first place you'd have got a very different response.

MarshaBradyo · 25/08/2020 13:54

Op numbers are incredibly low right now, lower than probably many thought they would be given half schools opening, pubs and other.

What happens when schools fully open is not certain, but we are starting from a very low rate of hospitalisation.

Aragog · 25/08/2020 14:39

At my infant school before the summer we were full with KW children.

No class was above 15.
Each class had its designated room and playground area.
Each child had their own table and chair, their own drawer under their desk with their own equipment. Sharing was not allowed.
Each class had 2 teaching staff allocated to it and no other adults were allowed to enter the classroom if it was occupied.
No parents were allowed beyond the school gates.
Children were not permitted to bring in anything from home bar their coats and a packed lunch, if not having a school packed lunch.

There were way more precautions, far fewer children, less movement, less adult to adult contact, less child to adult contact...

The same will not be happening at school this time next week.

Aragog · 25/08/2020 14:42

I am really keen to get back to work and teach children 'in real life' again after not being allowed through the classroom doors since March - I am clinically vulnerable so wasn't allowed to work in our childcare provision. Whilst online remote learning was going well for us, I want to be in a classroom, seeing children, doing my job.

But we can't pretend that what happened before the summer in any way replicated what will happen next week!

Of course any cases would have been reduced. That much is fairly obvious tbh.

I am just more pleased to read about the treatment side of things - we seem to be better at treating Covid, so even if we get it we are more likely to be okay in the long run.

Aragog · 25/08/2020 14:45

Practically no one is social distancing anywhere you go now it’s only teachers demanding it and I teach FE!

Don't know where you are in the country but I see a lot of SDing here, a lot of mask wearing, a lot of people standing further away from one another. Town, bars restaurants and shopping centres are nowhere near as busy as they were previously.
I know some people are not SDing with their close family, such as parents, but with people they don't know so well, or strangers they are absolutely SDing here.

Shockingstocking · 25/08/2020 15:13

But your position is still unexplained and you've failed to respond to the part which was extremely dim.

If you have mental health issues, don't start a thread on a hot topic that you know will draw strong responses, then not bother engaging. It is not a good formula and not particularly nice.

IceCreamSummer20 · 25/08/2020 15:43

@TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair I totally agree that some people are just mean and get personal. Maybe they are getting carried away but don’t take it to heart - I think many forget in the heat of ‘I am right” that we need to be respectful. The study you mentioned is not relevant to September schools reopening in my view and I’m in research - but it is good to have raised this as the study has been promoted by PHE and the Media and government as being relevant to schools reopening in a much bigger way than it should have.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread