Some reassuring news about schools being really safe

[TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair]

I know there's a huge amount of (justifiable) worry about schools going back soon and I saw a piece of news today which deserved it's own thread in case people wanted some nice news.

Public Health England has looked at the evidence from June when 1,646,000 pupils went back to 23,400 schools in total. They found just 67 cases of the virus as a result of that. Only 0.01% of schools actually experienced an outbreak. That means that not only are children exceptionally unlikely to suffer any serious effects from catching the virus if they do get it but they are also really, really likely to catch it or spread it around in school. I know that won't reassure absolutely everyone, particularly if you have a child with additional health needs, but it is so lovely to be able to look at the evidence and say that, in terms of this virus, schools are actually really low risk.

Story from here www.gov.uk/government/news/study-finds-very-low-numbers-of-covid-19-outbreaks-in-schools?utm_source=01ce0967-35e6-401b-92c7-8d5c486b1fe3&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate

My friend works in a SALT department and was off sick herself last week with a cold.

All 8 of her colleagues visited the Dundee school last week, so for the next fortnight she is her entire department.

It's so so disruptive.

@TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair all it shows is socially distanced, small classes and hardly any pupils in schools was safe. It does not show that it's safe for 32 children plus two adults to be in a room that is so small they have less than 1sqm per person.
It does not account for the families of these children going about their lives as they are now, relatively normally, and more than likely with no social distancing from others.

@pandafunfactory the additional needs isnt relevant when the figures show it mainly struck the staff, and the staff are coming in contact with each other in the same way as staff in any other school would. If anything, its worse in a secondary school because staff move around more. In an additional needs school staff work primarily with maybe 2 other members of staff and a small number of students. I see 5 different TAs a week and 300 kids. Staff are susceptible, and it spreads like wildfire, and ALL teaching staff are in close proximity to students. We dont stand at the top of the class like those who were in school 30 years ago say we do.

Its basic medical science; virus spreads, so the more people you come in contact with, the more it spreads. A staff of 130 with 2000 students is a sweet shop for a virus. If it is spreading like wildfire through a small additional needs school, its going to do the same through a secondary school.

@TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair

Gosh there's really no getting through to some people! This is really useful data. It's evidence schools are really safe. If you still want to worry about this, that's your prerogative but I think it's nonsensical not to be reassured by these findings on some level. They are such good numbers given all the fear about the virus.

Really? From statistical sense this is the most rubbish data as of yet. Just the Facts:

• this study is based on only about 1% of kids being in school
• this means that these kids had 100% of the space
• these kids had the benefit of being in smaller groups
• they were restricted to specific space and didn't wonder around from classroom to classroom (secondary)

Now, please run it down for me how this should reassure me with:

• all kids being back
• no space
• no staff for smaller class sizes
• everyone will be going round and round in secondaries

Or even better: pls explain how is this bullshit data relevant even????

It is creating an emotional narrative, that's all.
In my opinion a pandemic/virus has nothing to do with politics, side, preferences and narratives. It should be cold hard data driving decisions. In the UK this past 6 months have been about story and never about data. Facts are a thing that people shy away from and are happy to be fed garbage that reassures there belief systems.

@SqidgeBum

Sky news is reporting an outbreak in a special needs school in Dundee. 17 members of staff and 2 pupils.

Oh ye. Kids don't spread anything. Staff are magically immune (or if you read the news, we dont even exist).

This is the start of it. I think we can expect many more schools to have outbreaks. Its inevitable. The government can say what they like. The reality will kick in pretty soon.

How have the children spread the virus if only 2 are infected yet 17 adults are? Even in an SEN school i doubt that 17 teachers have been close contact with both infected children . If anything it suggests it doesn't transmit through children the same way as it does adults and going out on a whim here but as the school is an SEN school there's probably a higher percentage of vulnerable children than in a regular mainstream school.

The Government has not mentioned the Massachusetts Hospital study (part of Harvard) published on 19 August 2020 which shows children with Covid 19 carry a far higher level of virus than most adults which means they are very contagious. The study continues by saying unless far greater measures are implemented, the return of schools will lead to a wave or spike. The measure at my sons' schools are not nearly good enough and kids will be sitting two per desk and changing classrooms and desks every lesson. This is not safe.

Presumably only people showing symptoms have been tested, there may have been pupils or teachers who have the virus but are asymptomatic. And possibly some of the children haven’t been tested because it would be difficult for them to have the test depending on their SNs.

I have a feeling everyone's been tested now. That's the case with the local factory outbreak certainly; employed and families tested, someone like the best part of 3000 tests maybe (that's off the top of my head though)

You're being disingenuous, pandafunfactory. Teachers only want schools to stay shut if it's not safe for them to open. They don't want them to stay shut for the hell of it.

I am seriously sick and tired of the teacher-bashing on MN.

We have no way of knowing what role Asymptomatic children played in the Dundee case because they weren’t tested. Only people with symptoms are. Even testing everyone once the outbreak wouldn’t work because the Asymptomatic children may no longer be infectious. It’s a bit harsh to blame it on the teachers on the one hand and say kids are mostly Asymptomatic it have very mild cases on the other. It highlights how we don’t have the data to be sure yet.

I’m not a teacher but I have even more respect for them than ever right now. I will absolutely oppose any attempt to blame them for outbreaks.

Load of old shit. Not reassuring at all.

How many DC and their teachers were tested? How many relatives and friends of the 67 confirmed cases were tested.

1.6m isn't nearly 2m.

I'm particularly worried for those members of staff who are in particular at risk groups. Over 50s, 60s, men, ethic minorities, those with health issues. So rather a lot of school staff. What happened to Kate Garraway's husband, to pick a well known example. can happen to school staff too.

@halcyondays we are both presuming and assuming on things and coming up with predictions. Without knowing for sure all the facts about who has and hasn't been tested neither conclusion can be deemed correct and its just as equal to be either outcome.

In regards to "teacher bashing" in general I have alot of respect for teachers but after reading some comments on here the past few days referring to themselves as Martyrs, calling children little dickheads and snowflakes, starting threads about teacher polls wanting to resign when the poll didn't actually give an option for teachers to say they don't want to resign at all, my respect for them is dropping rapidly.

@TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair
Seriously don't even bother trying to get through to the absolute dickheads who are shitting their pants about this virus.

I have been back teaching my year 1 class since June, nearly full capacity and it's fine. The only problem was a sickness bug going round which would be more dangerous to them than covid.
And I am also a type 1 diabetic teacher before anyone says 'its alright for you if you're not vulnerable'. I'm more vulnerable to everything but you know what? I want to live life and I want my children to live life and this whole thing is ridiculous

In regards to "teacher bashing" in general I have alot of respect for teachers but after reading some comments on here the past few days referring to themselves as Martyrs, calling children little dickheads and snowflakes, starting threads about teacher polls wanting to resign when the poll didn't actually give an option for teachers to say they don't want to resign at all, my respect for them is dropping rapidly.

Calling bullshit. Show me one comment where a teacher has called a pupil a dickhead.

@Julmust
Please don't worry for me about covid if you didn't worry about me for the flu season etc etc. I am a Type 1 diabetic teacher and all I want is my class back to school.

Kate Garraway's husband was very very very unlucky but you can't use it as an example as it could have happened with any virus. If someone is killed in a car crash, they wouldn't stop you getting into a car. You'd feel sad for the person but would say they were unlucky. Same with Kate's husband..

People seriously need to get a grip, and fast

[quote moretolifethanthis2020]@TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair
Seriously don't even bother trying to get through to the absolute dickheads who are shitting their pants about this virus.

I have been back teaching my year 1 class since June, nearly full capacity and it's fine. The only problem was a sickness bug going round which would be more dangerous to them than covid.
And I am also a type 1 diabetic teacher before anyone says 'its alright for you if you're not vulnerable'. I'm more vulnerable to everything but you know what? I want to live life and I want my children to live life and this whole thing is ridiculous[/quote]
Teaching nearly full capacity would have been totally against government guidance in June. They specified groups of no more than 15.

@moretolifethanthis2020 I assume you don’t teach in UK- “I have been back teaching my year 1 class since June, nearly full capacity and it's fine.” No summer holiday?! Bubbles capped at 15?! I can only assume you normally have 15 pupils, which is half the amount of pupils most classes have.

@CaptainMonkey

There isn't any guidance re what happens if schools close. The only guidance is that schools need to be fully open. There is no plan B.

Do you mean there isn’t guidance if the schools fully close? I found what I had seen posted before, a local lockdown would have the same effect so assume same provision. I won’t quote it all as long.

Remote education support
Where a class, group or small number of pupils need to self-isolate, or there is a local lockdown requiring pupils to remain at home, we expect schools to have the capacity to offer immediate remote education. Schools are expected to consider how to continue to improve the quality of their existing offer and have a strong contingency plan in place for remote education provision by the end of September

[quote moretolifethanthis2020]@Julmust
Please don't worry for me about covid if you didn't worry about me for the flu season etc etc. I am a Type 1 diabetic teacher and all I want is my class back to school.

Kate Garraway's husband was very very very unlucky but you can't use it as an example as it could have happened with any virus. If someone is killed in a car crash, they wouldn't stop you getting into a car. You'd feel sad for the person but would say they were unlucky. Same with Kate's husband..

People seriously need to get a grip, and fast[/quote]
But we do put in a lot of measures to prevent car crashes: speed limits, mot tests, seatbelts, traffic lights, road calming measures. We mitigate to make the roads safer and where there are particular problems, consideration is given to changing things ( reducing speed limits, junction reconfiguring etc)
Teachers are saying that they are concerned that there has not been enough mitigation to prevent lots of car crashes.

@moretolifethanthis2020 I'm delighted for you that you feel safe teaching year 1, but my children go to an 11-18 school with 1400 kids. Some of their friends will be going to a 16-18 sixth form college with 2500 teenagers who travel from all around on public transport. A bit different from you! Are you an ethnic minority male in his 60s by the way?

Sorry you didn't say year 1 but you said "my class" which suggests primary

@Longwhiskers14 cant remember which thread exactly cos there's been lots but I think it was in the same one which children were referred to as snowflakes

@MarshaBradyo the problem is there is no funding for remote education provision. So if a school wants to provide work to be done via the internet this assumes all staff have laptops to be able to set this and that all pupils have laptops etc to be able to retrieve the work. If this is not the case what can the school do, it can't provide laptops. So it can be back to worksheets, but if the school is closed how would they print them off. You can't expect teachers to pay for printing off worksheets for pupils and then post them to them.