New study shows the huge role children play in spreading Covid

[Worriedmum999]

Biggest study so far on the role of children in spreading Covid has come out today. Surely this has massive implications on children going back to school as normal. It’s very concerning. news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/08/looking-at-children-as-the-silent-spreaders-of-sars-cov-2/

Instead of my waffle I should have just picked the bit out

“The data presented here does not support the claim that children are silent spreaders of COVID-19.

@Summersnearlyover

Anyone with any sense knew this from the start, why would children be magically exempt from spreading a highly contagious virus. The government must think the general public are thick with their gaslighting that schools are safe for all. There are still those out there shouting that children can’t catch it, it must be some sort of denial or sheer desperation to get kids back to school and life back to normal. Didn’t 90 odd thousand kids test positive in the US last week, that must be a tiny minority of kids who are actually infected.

Plenty of posters on MN have been shouting people down for calling DC spreaders and vectors. Teachers were being called silly (well a lot worse than that actually) for suggesting it could be spread by children. Hopefully, the majority now understand that the virus has the potential to spread within a school and not just outside of a school.

How times are changing as our knowledge of the virus increases.

But they now know the virus was brought in separately multiple times in February and started community transmission then. We aren’t in the same position now @Whydididothatfuckingthing

@TuckMyWin

Here we go again. Can we just cut this short? A bunch of people will say we shouldn't open schools because kids will spread the virus. Another bunch of people will say we have to open schools, because kids have to be educated and parents have to go to work. Lots of hand wringing will occur, and people will start throwing around insults. Tomorrow, someone will start another thread on the same subject, and so it goes on. HTH.

Some people need to know that they’re not alone. Different people will be turning to mumsnet every day as they start to worry more as September gets nearer.

Matt Hancock’s words of wisdom that it doesn’t spread in workplaces will have rang some alarm bells. So it only spreads in homes.... 🤔

I’m more than happy to keep coming on and make sure that the message of choice stays at the top of the threads. In these uncertain times that’s more than fair. And it would help make safer classrooms for those that need to attend. And more covid secure workplaces for staff.

If you have come on to mumsnet recently feeing alone and stupid for having anxieties about school I really recommend “Boycott the return to unsafe schools”. I have gone from turning to the bbc and guardian for what felt like open reporting at the start (but doesn’t now) through time mumsnet (which feels less real now) and landed at this Facebook group.

Even if you don’t believe in choice it’s been a useful insight for me into what happens if you try and oppress people’s freedoms; they form offshoots. P.S. it’s not a weird group, nor is it a group of people wanting schools to stay shut, it is about safer schools for all and choice.

You have you be really careful interpreting reports of papers.

If you just read news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/08/looking-at-children-as-the-silent-spreaders-of-sars-cov-2/ the headline is:

In a study of 192 children ages 0-22, 49 children tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, and an additional 18 children had late-onset, COVID-19-related illness. The infected children were shown to have a significantly higher level of virus in their airways than hospitalized adults in ICUs for COVID-19 treatment, according to Harvard-affiliated Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH) and Mass General Hospital for Children (MGHfC).

• This is a relatively small number of "children" where they define a child to be up to 22 years old.
• It says nothing at all about how likely they are to infect adults.

If you look at onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/apa.15371 for example, it says:

"Household transmission studies showed that children were rarely the index case and case studies suggested that children with COVID‐19 seldom caused outbreaks. However, it is highly likely that children can transmit the SARS‐COV‐2 virus, which causes COVID‐19, and even asymptomatic children can have viral loads."

And then we can look around the world (or even just Scotland) where schools have been opened and again, we see no clear picture that this has causes large outbreaks.

The punchline is that no one knows for sure but England/Wales are not the first countries in the world to open their schools so we can be reassured by the experiences of other countries. We also have to, as ever, weigh up the immense risk to an entire generation of children of not opening schools.

@ancientgran that’s really sweet but to be honest I wouldn’t know where to start, a petition is needed for parents to have the option to keep medically vulnerable children home but continue to have support from school.

I can’t believe some of the replies on this thread, how lucky some of you are not to have loved ones who are vulnerable, you should count your blessings and have more empathy for others who aren’t so lucky.

[quote Summersnearlyover]@ancientgran that’s really sweet but to be honest I wouldn’t know where to start, a petition is needed for parents to have the option to keep medically vulnerable children home but continue to have support from school.

I can’t believe some of the replies on this thread, how lucky some of you are not to have loved ones who are vulnerable, you should count your blessings and have more empathy for others who aren’t so lucky.[/quote]
I really hope that common sense prevails and soon, I think it will and I think putting people under this worry for the illusion of normality is unforgivable. I’ve stopped reading the replies on threads like these, I wonder what motivates them tbh. Take care and I hope you get the outcome that you want.

@StaffAssociationRepresentative changing so rapidly I agree. It’s almost like we should be opening schools with caution. Hoping the tide turning is the sign of common sense returning.

The anxious mums army does not have the skills to analyse this data properly and will make up the narrative that suits them. Shocker.
Unfuckingbelievable

@Bupkis

The anxious mums army does not have the skills to analyse this data properly and will make up the narrative that suits them. Shocker. Unfuckingbelievable

Hilarious. The fact that I’ve taught exponential growth to hundreds of a level kids which is causing me the most concern. We have no idea what autumn classrooms will do to the r value. They reckon they got r down to 2.2 with social distancing back in March, I think it will be higher in non socially distanced classrooms. It’s a disaster waiting to happen but one nobody wants to take ownership of...yet.... I still have hope even if it’s just the voting feet that sort it out. Boris needs to stop being such a coward and start taking responsibility.

Oh for goodness sake! Are you proposing that children never return to school, whilst every other part of life seems to have gone back to normal ?

Children have been forgotten way too much is this pandemic . It’s rather depressing that our society has let pubs open before schools.

Children have to go back to school in some capacity for their own wellbeing .

What age are your children op
?

“ Matt Hancock’s words of wisdom that it doesn’t spread in workplaces will have rang some alarm bells. So it only spreads in homes.... 🤔”

I find it astounding that Hancock said this when he caught it at work! And his boss and several Co workers.

Do they think we’re stupid!?

Actually don’t answer that

No one’s saying schools shouldn’t open. I need a little sign that says this.

@sunseekin
Sorry the bold bit was quoting
@Holyrivolli

I just can't believe how insensitive some people are, when people have posted concerns about extremely vulnerable children.

Oh for goodness sake! Are you proposing that children never return to school

I haven’t heard anyone propose this.

whilst every other part of life seems to have gone back to normal?

I don’t know of any other workplace that has gone back as normal.

“ The anxious mums army does not have the skills to analyse this data properly and will make up the narrative that suits them. Shocker.”

1. analysing data is part of my job. That’s why I consider all the evidence and see there is plenty on both sides of this argument.
2. so by the same logic are those who want schools open choosing stuff that suits their narrative. I actually see more of this.

@Charliescar

Oh for goodness sake! Are you proposing that children never return to school, whilst every other part of life seems to have gone back to normal ?

Children have been forgotten way too much is this pandemic . It’s rather depressing that our society has let pubs open before schools.

Children have to go back to school in some capacity for their own wellbeing .

What age are your children op
?

Quite. Schools need to reopen in a capacity that is safe as can be.

People are bleating on about it has to be the old normal or kids have a right to use a water fountain whenever they want or kids have a right to be in the same bubble as a friend need to toughen up and get with the program.

Restaurants open ! No social distancing - it’s a joke ! You are more likely to catch covid there than school , ditto bars .

Hairdressers- open
Beauty open
Travel industry open
Shops open
Offices open
My dr has gone back to normal service

This is just a few .
If people want to keep their kids of them let them , but not to the detriment of all the other children .

@Charliescar

Oh for goodness sake! Are you proposing that children never return to school, whilst every other part of life seems to have gone back to normal ?

Children have been forgotten way too much is this pandemic . It’s rather depressing that our society has let pubs open before schools.

Children have to go back to school in some capacity for their own wellbeing .

What age are your children op
?

Errrrr nobody has suggested this (ever 🤷‍♀️).

Maybe join “boycott the return to UNSAFE schools” group on FB, it’s opened my eyes to the rock and hard place positions of other parents.

There are also a lot of people concerned about teachers having no social distancing etc. A great place to further develop empathy.

Everyone wants schools open, but most want them open with sustainability and a cautious approach. Not a chuck them all in and 🤞approach. Where is the social distancing? The protective measures. Washing your hands wasn’t enough in March to get r below 2.2 and it won’t be now.

Anybody up for setting up a mumsnet rota? I think it’s important to balance out the bonkers but it is a bit tiring!

It’s about choice, I have no problem with your choice and I hope it is a free one. Please don’t try and shout people down and make them feel silly, it’s not a good look.

@Appuskidu

Oh for goodness sake! Are you proposing that children never return to school

I haven’t heard anyone propose this.

whilst every other part of life seems to have gone back to normal?

I don’t know of any other workplace that has gone back as normal.

Exactly. I’d actually just like to see schools having the same measures as other places.

[quote Bupkis]@sunseekin
Sorry the bold bit was quoting
@Holyrivolli

I just can't believe how insensitive some people are, when people have posted concerns about extremely vulnerable children.[/quote]
Sorry I knew @Bupkis 😁 and I share your disbelief too, makes me quite sad actually. I can only hope they have it quite bad themselves at the moment, no excuse but I hope there is some reason. It’s so mean.

The schools are already operating full time and with no social distancing or masks in Scotland. I wonder how long we've got. Will we make it to half term in October?
Mind you, some schools were proposing only allowing children in for 1 day a week. So on that basis, by half term they'll have had a year's worth of time in school.

In Germany, all secondary school children are wearing masks at school. Maybe we could learn from that?

@Emmememe @Appuskidu exactly

People who work in food packaging factories are spreaders. People who work in the NHS and nursing homes are spreaders. Everyone is capable of spreading it. But if you want food on your table and a health system, those people have to be allowed to go to work. Yes, they can try to SD and use PPE but it clearly isn't any guarantee.
Children and young people have been home a long time. They need the chance of a normal life. Will there be spreading, clusters and hot spots? Undoubtedly. Just as there will in food processing plants and health care facilities.