Safe to reopen schools

[askmehowiknow]

Article from oxford professor summarising new data that it's safe for children to be in school. Great pre September reading!

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/18/children-covid-19-english-schools-virus-safe-reopening

Onto attendance policies (again a government thing but they’re going to ignore that) it seems.

Who is "they"?

I don't blame teachers for the attendance thing at all, I know that comes from the government. I do, however, blame my particular headteacher for giving me grief keeping my DD off school for three days because she had a flu-like illness back in December, when her attendance was 100 per cent up until that point. Would she rather I had dosed her up and infected all the other children in her class?

I normally come in when I am unwell as I feel guilty about cover and students not having a subject specialist teaching them. This year I will take a different approach.

@WhyNotMe40

So 1 in 300 teenagers have Covid asymptomatically. My school is 1800 students. So there will likely be 2-3 asymptomatic students spreading it in their bubbles.of 200-300, plus buses. Great news! Really reassuring....

I think your maths is a bit out, with those figures you get 6 asymptomatic student spreading covid around. Not that that makes it any better...

A lot of people soldier into work when they don’t feel well. It’s hardly exclusive to teachers. We are all going to have to change

@RaspberryRuff

A lot of people soldier into work when they don’t feel well. It’s hardly exclusive to teachers. We are all going to have to change

Teachers are more likely to.

“Last year, a separate study found that almost half of classroom teachers in England "always" feel compelled to go to work, even when feeling unwell.

This compared with an average of 26 per cent of employees in other sectors.”

www.tes.com/news/teachers-least-likely-professionals-pull-sickie

Schools rely on teachers working when ill. Staffing is going to be a real issue.

@SaltyAndFresh

This is exactly what’s going to happen. Parents who don’t give a shit about a poorly child being in school and just dose them up and pack them off. I know it’s a nightmare with work and childcare. I get all that I have a job and kids of my own but it’s not right. It’s going to require a change in all of us and our workplaces too to stay home and not “soldier on” when we aren’t well.

@RaspberryRuff (I think this was you) I agree. If I end up unwell I'll be staying off until I'm recovered, whereas normally I'd just keep going (as expected). I wonder how many will simply be signed off with the very real stress of having to work in unsafe conditions, in the knowledge that very few people give a shit about their health.

I think many will get signed off or leave and those experienced teachers will be missed.

You’d think parents would be behind safety for all rather than wanting childcare or not to have to do any teaching themselves.

Sorry I missed the bit where it assumes 50% will spread it (as per the modelling). But actually that's not mentioned in the article. So yes, 6 asymptomatic teenagers...

The culture of presenteeism is deeply damaging and it starts in schools (I am not blaming teachers for that before anyone jumps on me).

@inpontypandyallday

Onto attendance policies (again a government thing but they’re going to ignore that) it seems.

Who is "they"?

I don't blame teachers for the attendance thing at all, I know that comes from the government. I do, however, blame my particular headteacher for giving me grief keeping my DD off school for three days because she had a flu-like illness back in December, when her attendance was 100 per cent up until that point. Would she rather I had dosed her up and infected all the other children in her class?

We get a red / amber / green attendance letter every term. My DD has attacks of croup and sometimes slips into amber. I just file it in the recycling bin and forget about it.

@RaspberryRuff

A lot of people soldier into work when they don’t feel well. It’s hardly exclusive to teachers. We are all going to have to change

Yes.

However, if a teacher is unwell and remains at home instead of coming in, adequate supply must be found to replace him/her. In pre-covid days, this was easier: TAs left on their own, the head making himself/herself available, etc. Now, it will be less so. If adequate supply cannot be found, particularly at primary level where staffing levels are lower, how will the children be able to come into school?

We get a red / amber / green attendance letter every term. My DD has attacks of croup and sometimes slips into amber. I just file it in the recycling bin and forget about it.

I had a literal phone call from the headteacher. So did other parents I know. Genuinely - an interrogation. "Well, what's wrong with her? Have you tried calpol? You might find she's alright once she's here?"

She had a temperature of 39.5, a hacking cough, a dodgy tummy and just spent the whole time she was off asleep on the sofa. Didn't even have the energy to watch TV.

Using the word safe in the middle of a pandemic is rather odd in my opinion. Lower risk, less risk, more safe perhaps. But safe is just Too definite. The headline of that article is also too definite and contrary to the message of the article which says “well it might be for the kids themselves [but not the adults they have contact with”

Using the word safe in the middle of a pandemic is rather odd in my opinion.

Disbanding Public Health England in the middle of a pandemic is also odd.

Continuing to tout the advice from PHE that masks aren’t needed in schools while disbanding them for being useless is odd again.

It’s almost like people aren’t being honest about their agendas.

@noblegiraffe

Using the word safe in the middle of a pandemic is rather odd in my opinion.

Disbanding Public Health England in the middle of a pandemic is also odd.

Continuing to tout the advice from PHE that masks aren’t needed in schools while disbanding them for being useless is odd again.

It’s almost like people aren’t being honest about their agendas.

Its also odd that it comes on the back of PHE saying that the government are misinterpreting their research to say that schools are safe to open.

Teachers are more likely too
No I think everyone regardless of profession or job has took themselves into work when really they should have stayed at home. Many don't get paid for the first few days sickness and then only get ssp so we go in because we can't afford to be off. Employers are very strict on sickness so we go in to avoid disciplinarys for multiple sicknesses. Also we go in because we feel guilty on our colleagues for having to pick up our share of the work. I know I've gone in when I've been ill for all 3 of them reasons. I hope Employers are going to be flexible and understanding in the future.

I agree with you both.

Uhoh2020

Its funny that you believe studies that suggests that schools are safe to mean that they are safe.
Yet don't believe studies that say say teachers are more likely to go in sick than other professions.

Yes @noblegiraffe and probably a lot of the time for ungrateful shits who don’t even appreciate it. I remember watching that educating Yorkshire prog a few years ago and there was a teacher on it who was debilitated by severe eczema exacerbated by stress, he could barely walk and was in work offering breakfast classes to kids who had already failed their GCSE and needed to get a C the next year for college, they plainly couldn’t give a shit about their exams and the poor teacher was in a terrible state. I was pretty Horrified

Does it matter which employee is most likely to go in when ill? The point I'm making is that now teachers can't is going to have a massive impact on the capacity of schools to stay open. What's more, having read on a thread on here that the effects are still felt after many weeks, these are likely to be long absences. I won't be dragging myself in after the seven day self-isolation period if I'm still struggling to catch my breath.

How about we try to reduce the likelihood of this happening by opening schools a bit more cautiously? This ridiculous normalcy bias is what led the UK into denying that Covid was anything more than flu and that theedia were scare-mongering in the weeks we could have mitigated its impact (no doubt it is those same deniers who want to believe they were right and that Covid is a hoax).

"What is this obsession about schools closing again straight away ? ...
I've no doubt it will be a messy term as another PP described but full school closure will be the very last resort and IF school did close it would be temporary not a whole term and a half closed like we've just had."

Have you checked out any US data on very recent reopenings and equally recent abrupt closures after a week? Admittedly I am thinking of colleges, which goes with an older age group, but Notre Dame springs to mind, as well as others.

I don’t think it’s a competition about who goes in unwell. In my profession there are a lot of set in stone dates and events that just cannot be changed. So if you have one of these you need to attend no matter how ill you feel. Many employers have absence policies that will discipline employees for excess sickness even if it’s genuine. Many only pay SSP. Lots of cultures in lots of workplaces need to change in light of the pandemic. I won’t hold my breath though

@SaltyAndFresh

Does it matter which employee is most likely to go in when ill? The point I'm making is that now teachers can't is going to have a massive impact on the capacity of schools to stay open. What's more, having read on a thread on here that the effects are still felt after many weeks, these are likely to be long absences. I won't be dragging myself in after the seven day self-isolation period if I'm still struggling to catch my breath.

How about we try to reduce the likelihood of this happening by opening schools a bit more cautiously? This ridiculous normalcy bias is what led the UK into denying that Covid was anything more than flu and that theedia were scare-mongering in the weeks we could have mitigated its impact (no doubt it is those same deniers who want to believe they were right and that Covid is a hoax).

my thoughts in a nutshell

@FrippEnos

Uhoh2020

Its funny that you believe studies that suggests that schools are safe to mean that they are safe.
Yet don't believe studies that say say teachers are more likely to go in sick than other professions.

Has there been a study about teachers going in sick more than any other profession? I didn't say they was less likely, I said we are all likely to take the same view about going into work when we are ill. Its a culture we've all taken too its not exclusive to teachers but if having that one upmanship on all other job roles makes you happy then fine. Also where have I said I think they are safe? I've implied we have no other option but to go with it but feel free to highlight to me where I have stated SCHOOL IS SAFE

Has there been a study about teachers going in sick more than any other profession

You could read my post of 11:47 or you could continue ignoring anything that doesn’t fit your narrative?

@noblegiraffe

Has there been a study about teachers going in sick more than any other profession

You could read my post of 11:47 or you could continue ignoring anything that doesn’t fit your narrative?

Same applies to you to be honest but hey ho 👌