Safe to reopen schools

[askmehowiknow]

Article from oxford professor summarising new data that it's safe for children to be in school. Great pre September reading!

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/18/children-covid-19-english-schools-virus-safe-reopening

@whistlestopsong if you truly do not see why the statement “20 kids have died” without an idea of what the sample of children was, how generalisable to the population the finding is, and how it compares to various other illnesses as a rate both in vulnerable and general populations - you’re not demonstrating that The person pointing this out is to be eye rolled at - you are demonstrating the dangers with public misunderstanding of science. What’s the sample? How does it compare? Is it generalisable? Are the fundamental, basic questions to ask of any statistic. Of allergies, mental health, accidents, anything. Otherwise it would all become a case of 281 people died in a plane crash, I’ll never fly again. Even you know that’s ridiculous. Why? Because of the reasons above. Scrutinising evidence is not for eye-rolling “academic researchers”, it’s just so we can measure and assess risks appropriately.

By the same token, the Guardian article provides no context whatsoever.

@whistlestopsong I totally agree with you. If you are able to stay home with your kids I recommend you deregister them and homeschool. Corona Virus will be around for a long time. This way the school will stop pressuring you and you cant be fined.
I would do this if I was able to stay at home but unfortunately I work in a school.
I feel like its a death sentence.
I have just started a new job as a one to one TA and the child has lost 4 or 5 TAs in the year before lockdown so I dont want to leave her. I'm terrified though.

[quote Jamhandprints]@whistlestopsong I totally agree with you. If you are able to stay home with your kids I recommend you deregister them and homeschool. Corona Virus will be around for a long time. This way the school will stop pressuring you and you cant be fined.
I would do this if I was able to stay at home but unfortunately I work in a school.
I feel like its a death sentence.
I have just started a new job as a one to one TA and the child has lost 4 or 5 TAs in the year before lockdown so I dont want to leave her. I'm terrified though.[/quote]
You feel like working in a school is a death sentence?

Here the science is less certain

an encouraging start

But the greater concern is whether children and teenagers with no symptoms could be shedding it, unknowingly

ongoing antibody study

So, yes, there is a chance that students will attend school while being unknowingly infected with the virus

speculation... based on unpublished data

suggesting

kept schools open for under 16-year-olds

many other variables could be at play here

some reassurance

however it is to be hoped

may well have contributed to this.

OK, so I copy and pasted some bits. Tell me why they are great... reading!?

It's vagueness and weasel words at its finest!

*I think a lot of people seem so keen on get students back to school they miss the safely (and this means for all, including staff and the wider community). I will only count schools back as a success if we don't have widespread closures. It is pointless opening schools fully in September if by doing so they mostly end up shut by October half term.

I wouldn’t see not closing as a sign of success. I’d say no deaths or serious cases as a sign of success more. It suits many for them to be open but they have adults in them, vulnerable children and then vulnerable/older family members at home. What other workplaces (bar emergency services) have no SD and no PPE in place and are expected to be in a room all day with at least thirty others?

I'd add no deaths, serious cases, or long term damage.

Such as lung scarring or chronic fatigue - which can happen even with mild cases.

I am carer to 3 small children, my terminally ill FIL and chronically ill DM. If I get chronic fatigue or long term damage they are all affected.

[quote Jamhandprints]@whistlestopsong I totally agree with you. If you are able to stay home with your kids I recommend you deregister them and homeschool. Corona Virus will be around for a long time. This way the school will stop pressuring you and you cant be fined.
I would do this if I was able to stay at home but unfortunately I work in a school.
I feel like its a death sentence.
I have just started a new job as a one to one TA and the child has lost 4 or 5 TAs in the year before lockdown so I dont want to leave her. I'm terrified though.[/quote]
A death sentence, for a virus with a 99.5% survival rate?

I get anxiety and wanting to be cautious. But when people still months down the line have this completely overblown assessment of the risks it seems clear that there is going to be no will at all for getting life as we know it back to any even vague semblance of normal. People like you and your attitudes will cause more damage than the virus.!

I find it interesting that according to the government school is completely safe. Yet my children can't do any of their "fun" activities, which is smaller groups of kids, in some cases still in school buildings. How does that work?

@WhyNotMe40

I'd add no deaths, serious cases, or long term damage.

Such as lung scarring or chronic fatigue - which can happen even with mild cases.

I am carer to 3 small children, my terminally ill FIL and chronically ill DM. If I get chronic fatigue or long term damage they are all affected.

We cannot guarantee any of this anywhere at all in society other than by all staying at home indefinitely. It’s completely ridiculous.

I don't want to just survive. I want to survive without any long term effects! Including potentially infecting my DM and FIL for whom it would be a death sentence...

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

*I think a lot of people seem so keen on get students back to school they miss the safely (and this means for all, including staff and the wider community). I will only count schools back as a success if we don't have widespread closures. It is pointless opening schools fully in September if by doing so they mostly end up shut by October half term.

I wouldn’t see not closing as a sign of success. I’d say no deaths or serious cases as a sign of success more. It suits many for them to be open but they have adults in them, vulnerable children and then vulnerable/older family members at home. What other workplaces (bar emergency services) have no SD and no PPE in place and are expected to be in a room all day with at least thirty others?

Is what you're suggesting that schools should only open when no serious cases or deaths can be guaranteed? As that would be impossible.

Do you apply this to other infectious diseases and causes of death in schools?

What if there is never a vaccine?

it is pointless opening schools fully in September if by doing so they mostly end up shut by October half term

What is this obsession about schools closing again straight away ? Its about as notorious as the endless amount of 2nd waves we've not had due to 1 thing or another.
I've no doubt it will be a messy term as another PP described but full school closure will be the very last resort and IF school did close it would be temporary not a whole term and a half closed like we've just had.
Think back to June time, September was the holy grail for children returning to school. We also had the endless predictions of second waves due to VE day, beaches, protests.....didn't happen....Mumsnet is the mystic meg version of predicting the future

I’m in the vulnerable group as well btw and have elderly unwell parents. It’s hardly unusual. I’m apprehensive too but as others have said the virus is going nowhere. We have to try and get on with life before society and the economy completely go down the pan.

It's not ridiculous

Everywhere else I can take reasonable precautions. I don't go to busy places. We do outdoor activities. I wear a mask.

Work will be 30+ teenagers, no SD, no masks, no ventilation...

@WhyNotMe40

It's not ridiculous

Everywhere else I can take reasonable precautions. I don't go to busy places. We do outdoor activities. I wear a mask.

Work will be 30+ teenagers, no SD, no masks, no ventilation...

The thing is though “reasonable precautions” won’t 100% prevent any of those things. If that’s what you’re looking for it’s completely impractical.

@Trinketsfor20, Sorry, off-topic a bit, but "graduated yesterday?" From nursery???!

No I'm not asking for a 100% guarantee. I'm wanting the same reasonable precautions as the rest of society.

Is what you're suggesting that schools should only open when no serious cases or deaths can be guaranteed? As that would be impossible.

1) They will assume that anyone arguing for the safe re-opening of schools actually wants them to remain closed

Ping!

@WhyNotMe40

I don't want to just survive. I want to survive without any long term effects! Including potentially infecting my DM and FIL for whom it would be a death sentence...

Stay at home forever then. It’s the only way this can be guaranteed.

@WhyNotMe40

No I'm not asking for a 100% guarantee. I'm wanting the same reasonable precautions as the rest of society.

Fair enough, I must have misinterpreted your posts. Apologies.

Now you're being ridiculous. Noone is asking for a guarantee. Just the same fair chance as everyone else.

Cross post

@Uhoh2020 thing is just a few weeks closing on and off will be disastrous for many Y11s who have already missed a huge chunk of work in areas where remote learning provision was not great.

Something needs to be put in place to ensure education can be provided whether a school is open or not.

@WhyNotMe40

I don't want to just survive. I want to survive without any long term effects! Including potentially infecting my DM and FIL for whom it would be a death sentence...

you know there are other viruses that about that can have devastating effects other than covid that probably surface every winter when viruses are more prevalent? They have always be there, the risk of catching a virus has always been there! There was some pretty nasty respiratory viruses going about before Xmas personally i think it was covid then but that's another thread did you keep your children off school then too?