US Doctor On Opening Schools

[mac12]

Dr James Hildreth, CEO of an American hospital and public health adviser to the mayor of Nashville, has a clear message about the opening of schools.

6 minute video well worth everyone's time.

@Nellodee

When you make things up that other people have said, like "I suppose you want schools shut until we have a vaccine" or "plenty believe total Covid elimination at all costs is a goal worth pursuing" when not one person has said these things, who do you think you are persuading?

You're certainly not convincing anyone who has read the full thread. Do you think people are stupid? Or are you trying to paint a false picture so that people who haven't read the entire thread will be misled and think what you are saying is true? What is the purpose of saying something that YOU know is false, and the people you are arguing with also know is false? I am baffled by this approach.

Some of us are not posting with an eye to persuading or convincing anyone and don't go through life seeing every bloody exchange between humans as an argument that needs to be won or it's a source of anger and malaise, which is a really chippy way to go through life.

@WhyNotMe40

The progress my year 10s made in small groups of 8 or so, just in 3 lessons, was amazing. That cannot be underestimated. Our large class sizes in this country are a real hindrance to progression!

That would be over 3 weeks though if they are only in one day a week, so only 3 lessons in the same time they’d maybe have had 12.

No wonder parents were apoplectic when 1 day a week was all that could be offered. Hopeless.

moretolifethanthis2020
Worldwide covid deaths so far 772209, flu 2017-2018 season between 290000 and 600000.
Uk flu deaths 2017-2018 around 10000-20000) excess deaths high at 50000
Uk covid deaths 41366
Excess deaths around 63500

Will we ever really know the true numbers? Who knows? However we will know in a few months if opening schools this way was a good choice or not. Seeing the kids in again and happy is fantastic so I hope that the governments will be proved right. However what has been put in place is pretty much extra handwashing in Scotland, if proved wrong questions should be asked about how little extra was done.

I live in an area where cases are very, very low indeed. I think it's worth a try at having everyone in, for a little while at least, preferably with lots of masks being worn.

But I don't think I'd feel the same way if I was living in Manchester.

We really need clear outlines of what we will do at which stage in the progression of the outbreak. So, if we have very low cases, we have full time schooling. If we have higher cases in the community, we move to a blended model. If we have a case within the school, we isolate that year group, and if we have multiple cases within a school, we move to distance learning for a fortnight.

The levels should be set in advance, so we can all see where we are. Businesses would be able to see cases rise and be aware of impending potential childcare issues.

And we need to sort out some kind of solution for exams for next year NOW, because the playing field won't be level, it will be more like the bloody Himalayas.

Well in those 3 lessons I managed to cover an entire half terms worth of content.... And they all genuinely got it as proven by the work submitted. This lessons of contact time also boosted how much work was submitted.

I am no more scared of this virus than any other virus we are exposed to constantly as teachers.

Yeah, because the common cold is going to send you to the hospital where you could spend weeks on a ventilator fighting for your life...

@WhyNotMe40

Well in those 3 lessons I managed to cover an entire half terms worth of content.... And they all genuinely got it as proven by the work submitted. This lessons of contact time also boosted how much work was submitted.

What about practical subjects? Science expirements/home ec/technology etc? How do kids do those at home?

The blended learning our kids would be getting was just part time school with extra homework.

We really need clear outlines of what we will do at which stage in the progression of the outbreak. So, if we have very low cases, we have full time schooling. If we have higher cases in the community, we move to a blended model. If we have a case within the school, we isolate that year group, and if we have multiple cases within a school, we move to distance learning for a fortnight.

This is an idea with several faulty assumptions behind it:

1 - Very low cases in the community where the school is located, so let's proceed with school -
What about teachers commuting from places where there are a lot of cases?
What about children commuting from places where there are a lot of cases?
What about teacher or student family members living in low case places but working in places where there are a lot of cases?
What about public transport?

Isolating one year group in a school -
What about siblings in other year groups or in other schools?
What about teachers' children going to other schools /nurseries /CMs?

We do not live in neat little capsules that exist in isolation from one another.

Why would you isolate a whole year group if there was a case in the group? Why not just the close contacts? Kids don’t necessarily have contact with their entire year group.

@Nellodee can you just take over please? I think the idea of clear thresholds is really good so we can all plan & proactively adjust behaviour accordingly.

If you are not open to changing minds or having yours changed, then you are not having a conversation, you are just enjoying listening to the sound of your own voice (or text equivalent). I don't consider debating to be being chippy, I consider it being intellectually curious and learning through an exchange of ideas.This is why I don't understand putting fake words into other people's mouths. If you disagree with someone, why wouldn't you want to look at where they were coming from, why they had come to a different conclusion to you? Why pretend there is a group of people who are saying made up things? What's the point of scoring points against imaginary people who don't exist in the first place?

@AnIckabog

The government also released a document a few weeks ago for school leaders on what to do when education staff die of covid, e.g. how to break it to pupils that their teacher has died. They know what they are doing.

That made me feel sick.

I know they know better.
We all know teachers will die
We all know family if the children will die

But to read the Givt have put out a document like that, just makes me feel sick

Utter utter bastards

What about practical subjects? Science expirements/home ec/technology etc? How do kids do those at home?

By video. They watch it as opposed to doing it themselves.

@RaspberryRuff

Yeah I get the advantage of smaller class sizes. Tbh I wasn’t that bothered about the part time arrangements as it was 2 full days in school one day and 3 the next for my 2 so pretty good. But I have friends with kids who have already missed exams this year sitting 5 highers next year and I find it very hard to believe that the curriculum for 5 higher grade subjects could be taught with kids in school one day a week! Bloody hopeless. Plus also more postcode lottery as my kids would be getting 2.5 times the school time just by virtue of where they live

Where is this one day a week idea coming from? Genuinely confused. Currently all students everywhere are going back full time with no social distancing or PPE. Happy?

Masks help protect others, I think the science is clear. However, along with that is correct usage of masks. Kids are going to be in school for 8 hours a day. What I want to know is how, and perhaps evidence from other countries could be useful, kids keep them on all day, without fiddling, touching, taking On and off, not handling etc etc which all renders them, per the same science, pretty useless.

RaspberryRuff, I think if you find one case, you're bound to have more a lot of the time, because a good proportion of people are asymptomatic. If you close for a fortnight, you stop that transmission chain dead. Maybe it was only one case, and if that's the case, then you'll be back up and running pretty quickly. Whereas if you leave it open, you risk getting a full on outbreak, and then you'll end up with the whole school closed for much longer.

Also, I really don't trust this "close contacts" only thing. I'm going to have 30 kids crammed in a tight space and I'm going to have hot air heaters blowing their air from one side of the classroom across to the other. I think if one person in a class has it, anyone in that class could have it. In KS4, those students are going to be mixing in various combinations throughout the day and being potentially exposed to multiple classrooms. If you're going to have bubbles, then you have to accept that the people within those bubbles can have had contact with each other.

mac12 I think they have thresholds in some other countries, don't they? The problem with clearly stated thresholds is it makes it harder to just pretend you said something totally different a week later. And we have Johnson. So....

Yes I know full well what’s going on in Scotland, since my children are at school in Scotland.

The point was, as I had thought I had mentioned in my posts, that people who keep going on about part time school seemed to assume that the kids would be in half the time. Under the plans published by Scottish schools before it changed to full time, many authorities could only have their pupils in one day a week. These were actual plans published by actual local authorities. I’m sure you could find them if you looked.

@mathanxiety

What about practical subjects? Science expirements/home ec/technology etc? How do kids do those at home?

By video. They watch it as opposed to doing it themselves.

How is watching a video in any way an appropriate substitute for doing it themselves? What about subjects like art or design and manufacture where they have to make things?

mathanxiety I agree with your points, but I think you're in danger of sacrificing the good for the perfect.

I just feel like this winter is going to be an utterly heartbreaking "we told you so" for a lot of us.

I really wish it didn't have to be but honestly, having seen the attitudes of so many posters in this last week or so, I don't think it can be avoided.

Which really fucking sucks.

RaspberryRuff I think if you come at it from the perspective of 2m distancing, you may only be able to get enough kids in to have 1 day per week. But if you come at it from the perspective of "half your students in at any one time" then you just do the best you can with the extra space and deal with it.

@Alittleodd

I just feel like this winter is going to be an utterly heartbreaking "we told you so" for a lot of us.

I really wish it didn't have to be but honestly, having seen the attitudes of so many posters in this last week or so, I don't think it can be avoided.

Which really fucking sucks.

Agree, sadly.

@Alittleodd

I just feel like this winter is going to be an utterly heartbreaking "we told you so" for a lot of us.

I really wish it didn't have to be but honestly, having seen the attitudes of so many posters in this last week or so, I don't think it can be avoided.

Which really fucking sucks.

Contrary to what the UsForThem bunch make out, I think most of us pessimists/realists really, really hope we're totally wrong about everything.

@Alittleodd

I just feel like this winter is going to be an utterly heartbreaking "we told you so" for a lot of us.

I really wish it didn't have to be but honestly, having seen the attitudes of so many posters in this last week or so, I don't think it can be avoided.

Which really fucking sucks.

You have no way of knowing that any more than anyone else.