School return will fail

[covidteacherscotland]

Okay so we have been back to school for a week! Great? No. Definitely not. Some thoughts on why this will be a disaster:

16 and 17 year olds are not children.

Social distancing is impossible. Genuinely impossible. Children will not or cannot stay out your space.

There is no PPE in school at all and staff are not protected in any way.

Children don't give a shit about washing their hands.

We've been doing double periods instead of single to minimise movement. This means that we are stuck in a room with 30 17 year olds with few or no windows as the respiratory droplets add up.

Educating your child is impossible if you can't go near them.

Our time management and pupil progress relies on us being able to give feedback to children formatively as we teach. To mark jotters as we go. We can't do this now.

I think that because infection is so low we'll be okay for a while - a few weeks - then the shit will hit the fan.

@meditrina , the plan is that the numbers in hospitals will go down and the NHS will be able to provide all services over the winter.

No government will survive the numbers dead that will result otherwise.

There will be a standard for schools to reach re remote learning and we will all have to get on with it.

*You say that if you wear a mask it's pointless because it won't protect you. If you cover your mouth, eyes and nose you are protected. Wear a visor and a mask

I think you need to calm down. If you don't like it stay home*

Sorry but you're completely wrong. That will not protect you. If it were as simple as that then the rest of the world could return to normal as well.

Yes I'm annoyed but I wouldn't say I'm ranting and raving. I'm allowed to be frustrated at our treatment and the disregard for our safety.

Not all school provided online learning. If it’s not safe for schools to return or they need to close- the provision needs to be more consistent. Some schools didn’t offer very much, some schools were amazing.

Why does there seem to be a higher number of teachers who need to shield?

I obviously meant live or recorded lessons, not twinkl worksheets. I am assuming you misunderstood
@PrivateD00r very droll. What did you actually post again? Oh yes, Teachers on here were united in saying they could not provide any sort of online learning
Sorry for not magically working out what you were thinking, rather than what you actually typed (and we both know what you actually think, come to that)

@StarUtopia

Just resign then? Think of all the supermarket workers, doctors, porters, nurses etcetera etcetera who worked during the height of the pandemic. They seemed to manage it with people who actually had Covid 19.

If you can’t or don’t want to do the job, why should I, as a taxpayer fund your lifestyle. No worky = no payy. We need to get back to as near as normal as possible without the hysteria coming from a small minority of teachers. I am sure there are plenty willing to teach who can step into the breach.

Totally agree. Teachers like to make out they're badly paid (they're not - mate of mine has just had her pay got up to £43k thanks to the pay rise). They also like to moan a lot and find all the things that are WRONG instead of working out HOW to do it safely themselves.

1. Just buy PPE yourself - a visor isn't expensive. You can wear a mask as well if you want to - £2.95 for a washable one.

1. Get a water bottle £4 in Tesco.

1. Open the windows and the doors.

99.97 % survival rate. It isn't anywhere near as deadly as SARS was, and yet we had no where near the hype about that. If you're fit, healthy and don't have any underlying health conditions, you are very very unlikely to suffer.

Oh and fgs. Pupils can bring a water bottle that will last the day. Do you know, back in the 80's none of us took water bottles into school and there was no such thing as a water fountain. We all had a drink at lunch (and let's be honest, the odd drink from the toilet taps, which yes wasn't acceptable) BUT NONE OF US DIED FROM A LACK OF WATER.

Starting salary for an NQT is roughly £25,000. A classroom teacher isn't on £43,000 without other responsibilities.

Visors do not offer protection against airborne viruses

Lots of schools do not have opening windows.

Maybe actually get facts straight before advising people to do the impossible or the unworkable?

A serious question. Bar on here I don't know of any teachers who don't want to go back into school. I have many friends who are teachers and also parents. Without exception they want to be back in the classroom teaching (and keeping their jobs) and want their children to be back in education. I don't hear of any concerns apart from a desire to be back with teaching as near to normal as possible.

Are the teachers I know different from all the others? I cannot believe that's the case.

@PrivateD00r - there is a huge void between live lessons and Twinkl worksheets which most MN teachers managed to fill using high quality distance learning.

God I feel sorry for teachers. What other job requires the employee to be present for sustained lengths of time in a room with up to 30 others, who may or may not be Covid-positive. How scary. I would be very nervous indeed. I’m not in the least surprised you feel like you do.
Here's another job in such circumstances: the people in the sandwich factory with the covid clusters? Plus in some cases working on zero hours or short term contracts, inability to afford time off to isolate, national minimum wage and no meaningful union representation? If they're lucky to be given a contract they get 4 weeks off a year plus bank holidays. Hardly a bulletproof or family friendly career.
I think OP is justified in her complaint but teaching is not the only industry suffering such issues sadly. Praise be to the teachers who provided childcare for front line workers kids during lockdown too.

covidteacherscotland Right, so pupils aren’t wearing masks and you need to accept that and move on. So just do what you can with masks and visors.

I don't know loulou, maybe your teacher friends tell you what you want to hear? I don't share my feelings with acquaintances. Maybe your friends have different bodies to other teachers, that make them immune to Covid? Who knows. It's a mystery.

OP, what do you actually want to happen? You have been asked more than once on this thread and I cannot see your answer. In fact it has been asked on a lot of similar threads and I never see an answer to it!

The plan where I live had been school part time - all kids go 2 days a week, half and half. Wednesdays, no kids were to attend to allow for cleaning and for the teachers to plan home learning. But last week our Minister announced all schools were to be FT.

Teachers I know are relieved as they couldn't figure out how they could teach FT but only have their own kids in school for 2 days. Pretty much all parents that I know shared this concern.

Is this the kind of setup you would prefer?

We know quite a lot about the support available for shielding families.

And also where the gaps are

There were literally hundreds of threads on here with parents asking why there were no recorded lessons offered, or personalised work. Just twinkl worksheets. Every reply from teachers I saw said they could not provide recorded lessons. Fair enough. But obviously that is why schools need to go back full time. My uni provided recordings of the lectures we had to miss, it was great. If schools could do this I would be more than happy to do part time school with blended learning. Sadly it seemingly isn't an option though. So I personally cannot see any other option other than full time school for all children.

Oh sorry, I thought the poster who said that was claiming that teachers had said back to school was the only way because teachers can't continue to provide online learning from Sept.

It's always been possible to do live teaching safely but a) unions were against it, b) not all schools had the appropriate software or knowhow and c) not all pupils had access to sufficient WiFi or devices. For those of us in schools where those things weren't a problem live learning worked fine but was no substitute for being in school. I hated every second of it.

It's not schools that you need to worry about, it's nurseries and preschools. Under 5's have between !0 and !00% more viral load than a 5-17 year old. It's them that are the superspreaders.
You are more likely to catch it from your toddler.

It is a mystery then! But its a serious point. I don't hear complaints but on here I here just obstacles. I don't get it.

I wonder equally how many police officers we have on here. Again, maybe I have missed it, but police officers mix with so many people per day and really put themselves at risk, I don't hear complaints from them. I assume they don't have PPE and just carry on with their jobs. It would be interesting to hear from them and their perspective.

I just want my DD to have some structure to her life , see her friends, prepare for the future, show some enthusiasm for something! She is always fancying herself ill at the moment, she is so sad!
I do not believe that any consequence of sending them to school can be worse than keeping them at home month after month, they need to be learning and with their friends. If you cant help them with that, then don't, but you must realise the damage that isolation is doing our children, it has to end!

Op

I hear you

I'm frustrated with you.

What would you like the solution to be op? I'm not being goody, just genuinely interested in how you think this issue can be resolved

Goady

Visors have been shown to be pretty useless. However, wearing a mask has been shown to provide protection (not obviously 100%).
I do understand your concerns, I spent 3 months in ITU where we had constantly changing guidelines regarding PPE, recently found out that the 2 meter rule is incorrect and should have been almost double for prolonged contact.
Currently still working in clinical environment but with no idea if clients are positive or negative, plus zero social distancing with staff as it is just impossible!
Wearing a mask all day is dire. 13 hours of it hurts, not the surgical ones so much- although still get sore ears, but the FFP3 masks hurt, a lot, afte only a couple of hours.
Water wise- sorry, no sympathy, but that’s due to what I went thru🤣
However, good luck, and stand your ground. If you feel unsafe then that is what needs to be taken into account.

Educating your child is impossible if you can't go near them.

Our time management and pupil progress relies on us being able to give feedback to children formatively as we teach. To mark jotters as we go. We can't do this now.

What’s the answer to this? Is it even solved by having classes of 15? for example

Here's another job in such circumstances: the people in the sandwich factory with the covid clusters? Plus in some cases working on zero hours or short term contracts, inability to afford time off to isolate, national minimum wage and no meaningful union representation? If they're lucky to be given a contract they get 4 weeks off a year plus bank holidays. Hardly a bulletproof or family friendly career.
I think OP is justified in her complaint but teaching is not the only industry suffering such issues sadly. Praise be to the teachers who provided childcare for front line workers kids during lockdown too.

I really do appreciate your support. Thank you. PHE found that the sandwich factory had actually been pretty scrupulous in their application of the safety guidelines. They had many measures in place apparently. They have actually tried to blame the workers socialising! Now clearly this can't be the case but it does show that they returned with some safety measures in place and an outbreak still occurred.

We have none beyond hand sanitizer and a one way system.

If people are being forced into work in unsafe conditions then that's against regulations and they should be reported. It should be a case of zero hours workers are being forced to do it so teachers should too.

Employers have to put in place safety measures to distance and protect adults in the workplace. Unless it's a secondary school and then they don't because they are kidding on that 16 and 17 year olds aren't adults.

@loulouljh

It is a mystery then! But its a serious point. I don't hear complaints but on here I here just obstacles. I don't get it.

I wonder equally how many police officers we have on here. Again, maybe I have missed it, but police officers mix with so many people per day and really put themselves at risk, I don't hear complaints from them. I assume they don't have PPE and just carry on with their jobs. It would be interesting to hear from them and their perspective.

My DH is a police officer and doesn't wear any PPE. He isn't bothered and just gets on with it. He has been incredibly busy though so really hasn't had time to really think about it much. He says none of his colleagues spend any time worrying about it either. They have spit guards on order, but they haven't arrived still, they get spat at a lot

Discussed this with a friend last night, we are both immigrants here

We thought the British were all about stoicism and stiff upper lip. We will not surrender etc

But this is the only place where schools have been closed for months on end, are now still closed, and will likely close again within weeks of opening.

It’s been surprising

Why are people here so very much more scared than other countries? Is it to do with the tabloids constantly catastrophising and ramping up the panic?

Obviously PPE would help, but I’m thinking if of private schools or last term when schools were 15 and no PPE