School return will fail

[covidteacherscotland]

Okay so we have been back to school for a week! Great? No. Definitely not. Some thoughts on why this will be a disaster:

16 and 17 year olds are not children.

Social distancing is impossible. Genuinely impossible. Children will not or cannot stay out your space.

There is no PPE in school at all and staff are not protected in any way.

Children don't give a shit about washing their hands.

We've been doing double periods instead of single to minimise movement. This means that we are stuck in a room with 30 17 year olds with few or no windows as the respiratory droplets add up.

Educating your child is impossible if you can't go near them.

Our time management and pupil progress relies on us being able to give feedback to children formatively as we teach. To mark jotters as we go. We can't do this now.

I think that because infection is so low we'll be okay for a while - a few weeks - then the shit will hit the fan.

Teachers on here were united in saying they could not provide any sort of online learning so there is no other option but to get back into the classroom I am afraid

Yeah - complete cobblers.

@missyB1

I don’t understand the no drinking water thing? I work in a private school and we will be feeding and watering our kids as normal! Covid isn’t living in the taps is it? 🤔 And nobody has a packed lunch, it’s all hot meals, and trays of snacks at break time. We won’t have masks because it’s a primary school. But our obvious advantage is much smaller classes and large outdoor areas.

I assuming (since the op said the water issue is due to a lack of the system being serviced) that the drinking water system has been taken out of use due to concern about legionella. Water systems need to used regularly otherwise this is a real risk and it has been a problem with several places opening up post covid. However (and this is why I asked about loos up thread) presumably someone realised this and has been in flushing taps and toilets (otherwise the school wouldn't be able to open at all) but decided to leave the drinking water taps?

Hi OP my ds (15) went back to school yesterday and I have to say I'm not sure how it's going to work. I think it's understandable that teachers are concerned especially as they've mostly not had to expose themselves to risk for a few months now. That's not a criticism it's just the more you are dealing with the realities of COVID 19 on a regular basis the more desensitised you become

I am a nurse and was off sick when the whole thing kicked off and I felt really anxious at all the what ifs when returning to work. Once I was back I settled down as it is what it is and this is what I have to do.

Nurses do expect to have to deal with infections and so on but no one signed up for this - no matter what job you do. We have PPE but for most of the time we wear the surgical face masks the kind that only really protect others. Our patients are not wearing masks so there is no protection for us and we are up close carrying out personal care.

I hope it works out. I have family members who teach and I want them to be safe but I also want my son to be educated. The system that was in place during lockdown was, in my sons school, rubbish so if we were to move to a part time timetable it would need to be much better.

@StarUtopia "Totally agree. Teachers like to make out they're badly paid (they're not - mate of mine has just had her pay got up to £43k thanks to the pay rise). They also like to moan a lot and find all the things that are WRONG instead of working out HOW to do it safely themselves."

What do you mean - all teachers? Have you asked ALL teachers? Have you? Really? All teachers like to moan do they. You're the one moaning. Just shut up and LEAVE TEACHERS ALONE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

What's stopping you wearing PPE?

One last time for the hard of reading!

Nothing. I could wear a face mask if I wanted but it would be absolutely pointless unless everyone is wearing them.

There may well be an actual protective type mask, but we certainly don't have access to them.

I would have preferred some kind of blended learning but that was not the prevailing view

I think we are going to need mature plans for blended learning, particularly for these age 15+

Because the prospect of sorting out public exam results in 21 (and potentially 22) if some schools are shut, possibly more than once (burst bubble, local lockdown) when others are not, is just ghastly

I think it will all be just fine. Let's hope for the best for the sake of our kids.

YANBU OP. I really hope something is done.

To all those that are saying about people in other professions that have been at risk/are continuing to be at risk, that's shit also and something should be done about the risks to everyone... not tell teachers to get on with it, because other people have to. Where's the solidarity? It's not good enough that anyone is expected to put themselves at risk. And thank you to everyone who has been going out to work throughout all this.

I do think teachers have a massive point about the lack of SD, no PPE and hours that they are expected to be in an enclosed space with 30 others...

I personally am very worried about my son going back to school, and the lack of SD. Plans to prevent spread are patchy and that's being kind.

For secondary schools, I do think a blended approach would reduce the risks massively, and I think there's a case for making different plans for secondaries than for primaries because:

1. there's emerging research that shows that teenagers can spread the virus as much as adults do, whereas younger children seem to spread it less
2. secondary schools are massive, and secondary pupils will be in far bigger 'bubbles' than primary children.
3. most secondary children don't need the level of supervision that primary children do so it will have less impact on working parents (for vulnerable children of course full time schooling should be on offer as it was throughout)

I also think that teachers should be given PPE - visors at least, if not masks. I know visors are not as effective as masks but would be better than nothing and don't impede communication. Secondary children should be permitted/encouraged to wear masks (although I am actually in favour of all secondary age children wearing masks, I can also see the issues with this in terms of it being uncomfortable for them and given the level of resistance from some grown adults wearing them when they pop into Asda for half an hour I don't know how it would go making it compulsory). And I think all schools (both primary and secondary) should be doing temperature checks at registration.

Thank you for everything you're doing OP. Have you considered writing to your MP or the Coronavirus APPG, they are taking evidence of concerns now appgcoronavirus.marchforchange.uk/appg_details

The lack of drinking water will probably be due to the risks from legionnaires disease when buildings have been out of use, really hope they get that sorted for you asap www.hse.gov.uk/coronavirus/legionella-risks-during-coronavirus-outbreak.htm

I think it will all be just fine. Let's hope for the best for the sake of our kids.

Fingers crossed. Is it true that the 300 people who tested positive in the sandwich factory in England were asymptomatic? That gives me hope that maybe more people have had it than they think. Maybe messing to fewer outbreaks.

I don't know though I'm not a science teacher! 😊

What do you want to happen OP?

No school, no education, no jobs for teachers?

Ot get on with it, the way the rest of us do?

Teachers on here were united in saying they could not provide any sort of online learning so there is no other option but to get back into the classroom I am afraid

I think the only thing that comes close to that is that we can't provide online learning and face to face learning at the same time. Because we can't cut ourselves in half!

So unless the government organises something like they have in America where pupils sign up to either online, blended or physical and are directed to classes and teachers accordingly, individual schools will have to do one or the other.

Leading not messing

@loulouljh

I think it will all be just fine. Let's hope for the best for the sake of our kids.

You've missed a bit off the adage

It's: 'hope for the best, plan for the worst'

School returns won't fail, although it's likely a few schools may close temporarily on a local level at points.

@Mistressiggi

Teachers on here were united in saying they could not provide any sort of online learning so there is no other option but to get back into the classroom I am afraid As a "teacher on here" I have to say - utter bollocks. Not worthy of rehashing further.

@GetThatHelmetOn thank you for your post that was good to read.

OP is in Scotland, no governors, no MATs.

Also, PPE is not the name given to face coverings you made at home or bought in the supermarket.

I obviously meant live or recorded lessons, not twinkl worksheets. I am assuming you misunderstood.

@covidteacherscotland

Totally agree. Teachers like to make out they're badly paid (they're not - mate of mine has just had her pay got up to £43k thanks to the pay rise). They also like to moan a lot and find all the things that are WRONG instead of working out HOW to do it safely themselves.

1. Just buy PPE yourself - a visor isn't expensive. You can wear a mask as well if you want to - £2.95 for a washable one.
Doesn't work unless everyone wears one.

2. Get a water bottle £4 in Tesco.
That's fine for me. What about kids whose parents don't send them in with anything . What about the kids who drink a lot on a hot day but just want to fill up?
3. Open the windows and the doors.
The doors out into the indoor corridors? many classrooms don't have windows.

99.97 % survival rate. It isn't anywhere near as deadly as SARS was, and yet we had no where near the hype about that. If you're fit, healthy and don't have any underlying health conditions, you are very very unlikely to suffer.
Made up shite. Can you link to wear you get your survival rate? What about long terms effects? How come you know more than the WHO and most high ranking scientists.

Seems weird when you haven't even managed to read the thread.

regarding survival rate/fatality rates, whilst it is difficult to be accurate at this stage that seems a reasonable number from PP. Lots of data available, for exapmple form the British Medical Journal :

"The overall cumulative incidence of death 90 days after the start of a study in over 10,000 COVID-19 patients in England was

@covidteacherscotland

Been here forever. Name changed.

Shit will hit the fan for both - quality of teaching and also spread of infection.

I doubt shit will hit the fan if teaching quality goes down the pan. Education went under the bus since March and I didnt notice many / any protests about it.

So many teachers don't want to go into school either.

Who in 100% honesty thinks education is vital right now? I know I do as I'm a governor so I have to make hugh desisions on education for zero wages so I care enough to care withoutout anything in return.

This pandemic has shown me that "caring passionately" about children or education is just a crock of shit to very many people.

@venusandmars

OP

Thick bastard alert 🚨

I have no idea who that was directed at, but you just lost my support. We (the whole community) only deal with this through intelligent debate. Making reasoned arguments, looking for workable solutions.

Somebody provoked you, but surely you give your pupils some strategies for not responding... ?

re: your own protection - I've seen people wearing a mask ( to prevent spread) AND also a clear face shield to protect themselves.

The face shields don't protect against airborne particles, it was shown in an outbreak in Switzerland.

@KatySun are you in Scotland? Your post sounds like you are (S6) but the government guidelines for Scotland are quite clear that staff are to SD from children and from eachother. And pupils do not have to. I'm guessing your dc are at a private school (if classes small enough to distance!) but I'm pretty sure private schools should also follow government guidelines? Maybe not.

@covidteacherscotland

What's stopping you wearing PPE?

One last time for the hard of reading!

Nothing. I could wear a face mask if I wanted but it would be absolutely pointless unless everyone is wearing them.

There may well be an actual protective type mask, but we certainly don't have access to them.

You've came on here ranting and raving, what do you want us to do?

If you don't feel safe tell your superior and don't go in

You say that if you wear a mask it's pointless because it won't protect you. If you cover your mouth, eyes and nose you are protected. Wear a visor and a mask

I think you need to calm down. If you don't like it stay home

@KarenFitzkaren

School returns won't fail, although it's likely a few schools may close temporarily on a local level at points.

And what is the plan for the pupils who lose more weeks of schooling?

@venusandmars

I'm sorry but I don't really care. Your visor and mask theory is nonsense. That will not protect a teacher if one of their pupils is infected but not themselves wearing a mask.

My post was admittedly very cheeky and a bit shit. I do regret it. It was aimed at the poster who wrote

Nanny state alert 🚨

@manicinsomniac

Teachers on here were united in saying they could not provide any sort of online learning so there is no other option but to get back into the classroom I am afraid

I think the only thing that comes close to that is that we can't provide online learning and face to face learning at the same time. Because we can't cut ourselves in half!

So unless the government organises something like they have in America where pupils sign up to either online, blended or physical and are directed to classes and teachers accordingly, individual schools will have to do one or the other.

There were literally hundreds of threads on here with parents asking why there were no recorded lessons offered, or personalised work. Just twinkl worksheets. Every reply from teachers I saw said they could not provide recorded lessons. Fair enough. But obviously that is why schools need to go back full time. My uni provided recordings of the lectures we had to miss, it was great. If schools could do this I would be more than happy to do part time school with blended learning. Sadly it seemingly isn't an option though. So I personally cannot see any other option other than full time school for all children.

I take it that none of you has read the thread where posters piled on to berate a school because the OP's child wasn't able to refill their water bottle at school because of an issue with the supply?

OP, this sounds completely shit, and I'm sorry for the unsympathetic response you're getting from people who presumably feel you are pissing on their parade of finally getting their kids back to school, by telling how it really is. We in England have all this to come in a couple of weeks.

nether - see above for community solutions - if DC/Parents/Staff need to shield due to 'underlying health conditions' then they should - and many of those involved in the vast majority of School Communities I have no doubt will do what they can to support the minority within each School Community unable to fully participate.

There is a wealth of Community Volunteers and Support available, even in the most deprived areas, it takes a small shift in perspective, away from centralized decision-making as being the be all and end all, towards realizing the support already locally available.

Schools like to declare that they are central to their local communities, so let your local communities help you - many schools might then form a greater respect for the strength of the communities they serve, rather than placing themselves a little bit above them, as they tend to do in the most deprived areas.