School return will fail

[covidteacherscotland]

Okay so we have been back to school for a week! Great? No. Definitely not. Some thoughts on why this will be a disaster:

16 and 17 year olds are not children.

Social distancing is impossible. Genuinely impossible. Children will not or cannot stay out your space.

There is no PPE in school at all and staff are not protected in any way.

Children don't give a shit about washing their hands.

We've been doing double periods instead of single to minimise movement. This means that we are stuck in a room with 30 17 year olds with few or no windows as the respiratory droplets add up.

Educating your child is impossible if you can't go near them.

Our time management and pupil progress relies on us being able to give feedback to children formatively as we teach. To mark jotters as we go. We can't do this now.

I think that because infection is so low we'll be okay for a while - a few weeks - then the shit will hit the fan.

@SengaStrawberry

I empathize with them too. They're not mutually exclusive.

The teachers here also have children in potentially more that one setting like many of the non-staff on here. So yes we have childcare and work issues too.

@SengaStrawberry

In what way don’t I get it? We are not in a good financial position due to what’s happened to us either. But I still have enough fucking brain cells to know that sending a kid to school with Covid no matter whether it seemed a short term solution is going to make everything even worse not just for other but for me too!

Jesus Christ. Me too, I'm just saying I understand why people do it.

No, there will you just can't use it. If there is no water supply at all, they wouldn't be open.

I can’t see what difference this makes in practice - no one can get a drink either way - but ok.

@HipTightOnions

No, there will you just can't use it. If there is no water supply at all, they wouldn't be open.

I can’t see what difference this makes in practice - no one can get a drink either way - but ok.

You need potable water for food prep etc...

You need potable water for food prep etc...

Not much of that happening either!

@CallmeAngelina well shouldn't society go without pleasurable interaction like pubs restaurants beauty treatments leisure activities in order for schools to be safer? I love a pub and eating out more than most but I don't think its fair adults can do all these things, agreeably within guidance, but schools re opening will be the catalyst of transmission?
Its unfortunate that schools can't be made easier to social distance within the framework they have but that's the reality of the situation and infrastructure and funding available to schools at the moment. Us moaning about it on MN isnt going to change things overnight even if money was no object .

It's not the same at all.

We will have to agree to disagree

I know some parents are selfish, others are desperate.

Yet all the parents that send their children in ill are desperate, that is also a generalisation.

Again I never said anything about holidays so ...

suit yourself.

Yes SAR I do understand that most 'grassroots teachers' have little say in what SLT dictates - as do most 'grassroots workers' everywhere.

And I do think the greater problem resides with how those with SLT responsibilities actually gained their promotions, because I haven't noticed that competence, intelligence and overall abilities were the qualities that governed SLT promotions - but that would be for another day.

So, alll the grassroots have is Representation, both National (Unions) and Local - primarily Governors.

Don't assume I Guvved and Repped for the Gin and Nibbles; because unless I was a poorly paid Clerk whose sole purpose was making sure the Body kept to the Rules and Regs, I was totally unpaid and did it for the grassroots - the 'unrepresented'.

Do I do such things now - nah - why would I give up my time to the benefit of others for free anymore??

I do have to restrain myself though, from getting involved, I guess wanting to help your community, whether it's local or global, without being paid for it is a natural thing for some people.

[quote TrustTheGeneGenie]@SengaStrawberry

I empathize with them too. They're not mutually exclusive.[/quote]
So if your kid’s school shut due to an outbreak and you couldn’t work, or your kid picked up the virus from another one who had been sent to school when they should have been off and you then had to isolate for 2 weeks on SSP, you’d be so full of empathy for the “desperate” parent that had started it all off? Sure you would 🤔

Re the sickness thing...I have always kept mine off when unwell and for 48 hours after. However I got heavily criticised last year for one DCs attendance, which made me feel pressured to stop doing this. Surely schools need to chill a bit with attendance targets etc if they wish for DC to stay off if at all unwell?

(This DC was off for 7 days with flu in November, so early in the year this made his attendance show as 92%, he wasn't actually off again after)

Absolutely agree @PrivateD00r. We also need things like protection from dismissal and decent sick pay for people who have to isolate for public health reasons. I won’t hold my breath though.

I don't think its fair adults can do all these things, agreeably within guidance, but schools re opening will be the catalyst of transmission?

I think the point is that they're both potentially risky. And there has been discussion about possibly closing certain sections of society in order to ensure schools open. Not sure if the idea has been abandoned.

@covidteacherscotland it is not a race to the bottom. It is a demonstration that other professions are also struggling. My 65 year old father will not report his workplace - if he lost his job now, who do you think would employ him?! And you genuinely don't think that working on a mental health ward with patients who will pull down your mask and deliberately cough and spit at you, several times a day, is equivalent to a classroom? My niece passed her nursing this year and went straight onto the ward. She caught covid on her first week.

It seems to be unpopular, and makes people very defensive, and people keep mentioning being in a classroom with 30 children. I know it's scary, I'm not saying it isn't. I support whatever measures it takes to keep teachers safe. However, you are not the only profession at risk. Granted they are different circumstances, but there is still risk.

[quote Uhoh2020]@itsgettingweird exactly my point there's break outs In all settings, but many posts on here blame children for the majority or will be the main reason for society closure. Schools reopening soft play re opening all set to be blamed for the so called inevitable second wave, when the actions of adults aren't exactly by the book its laughable.
IF children are bringing the virus into school then the question needs to be asked how the child has picked it up? Is it because Mum has been for her eyebrows done, because Dad has been the pub, because the child has touched the same swing in the park another child has touched?
Children have been suffered the worst indirect affect of this pandemic and still continue to be blamed for the cause of future spread.[/quote]
Well you've read far different threads than me.

Most of them I've seen have been schools should open whatever and at the cost of pubs etc if need be.

Alongside plenty of believing that children don't spread it and not realising that that was an interesting comment when children over 11 are expected to wear face coverings in public.

And there has been discussion about closing certain sections of society in order to ensure schools open

Was there actual discussion of this or was it the media bad interpretation of them saying they will close all other businesses in the future before they consider closing schools again?
We can't have most adult reliant facilities open and schools/nurserys closed surely not? When are we going to put them 1st for a change?

@Getoutofbed25

I’m actually pretty annoyed at the people going on about a teachers salary.

There are plenty support staff in a school in positions that possibly put them at greater risk than teachers who are on very low incomes.

Should they just resign or die.....the point is it’s not about money it’s about keeping People safe, both children and staff regardless of income

Thank you for this. I’m a TA. worked all the way through this whole thing. Looking after the key workers children and vulnerable children. I just crack on. It’s nice to get a mention.

@10storeylovesong okay look at it another way. In order to draw comparisons you've discussed a factory where workers are illegally forced to work in unsafe positions but are too afraid to report and actual examples of assault.

So your argument genuinely is 'teachers it's not just you... look at this'

Jesus wept.

@itsgettingweird ill be the first parent there when school opens . I want school to open. But you have to admit that many threads on here think it will be schools that transmit the virus. Not the adults going about their business going the pub, getting eyelashes done, going the gym, no nearly every thread is about children going to school, getting the education they deserve, but transmitting the virus through society whilst adults can get back to what's pleasurable for them.

@covidteacherscotland - OK, so let's look at it your way... Everyone in unsafe working environments around the country, let's down tools. Since March, there would have been no public transport, so supermarkets open, no factories open to manufacture anything, no police (although lets face it, our working conditions are unsafe the majority of the time), no nurses, no mental health workers. So many more professions I could name. What do you propose we do?

@covidteacherscotland - I'd like to ask another question. Did you give a second thought to any of those professions I mentioned while they've been working full time shifts, 12 hour shifts 6 days in a row, with cancelled days off, no leave, no summer holidays, while you posted about your profession? Are we all in it together?

@10storeylovesong you're not getting this at all. All if those professions you mention have some form of safety measures in place. If the employers/ owners/ employees choose not to do them well 🤷🏿‍♀️ but otherwise, in theory, they are being afforded some special measures to try to keep them safe.

I've got a hand sanitizer and an open window.

I'm not talking about holidays. I'm talking about safety.

@10storeylovesong would you mind sharing where you work? I don't mean to put you on the spot but I'm curious to see if I can try and explain how I'm feeling in a better way.

OP, the water fountains in our school have tape all over them preventing them being used and all of our taps have signs that make it clear the water isn't drinkable. I am pregnant and I'm currently bringing in two 2 litre water bottles (just filled from my tap at home) and leaving them in my staff base fridge. It's not ideal but at least it means I can get some water. Not sure how kids would actually manage that. I don't think k it's an issue in most schools but it's certainly an issue in mine too so it's not just you!

Oh sorry. Reading that again I see you are a Police Officer.

Okay so that's a hard one because as you say there's an element of danger there anyway. Rightly or wrongly it's part of your job.

Are you a specific type of officer? Again I would understand if you don't want to give that away. I'm just trying to create an analogy here