Coronovirus IS transmitted in schools

[mosquitofeast]

And lots of teachers have died

I am just clarifying this, as I don't know how many times I have read on Mumsnet that this has never happened. I don't know where this misinformation is coming from, but its rubbish

It was transmitted several hundred times in my school (secondary)before lock down. Hundreds of children and dozens of staff were affected. Some have been seriously ill and have been left with long term health problems, such as low lung capacity and loss of hearing.

I am a teacher and I was infected at school. I did not use public transport, or go into any shops or other businesses for the whole of March, and I was living alone. The only time I was in any contact with anyone else was in school

A school near us (also secondary) had to close a week before school closures were announced, as so many teachers were infected.

Thankfully, no staff or student in our school died, although several students have lost parents, and many have lost grandparents. One of my sixthformers has withdrawn her university application as her mum has lost a lung and a leg and now can't run her home and care for her younger children on her own.

However, according to the union, around 200 school staff have dies to date, so we have just been lucky so far.

So please don't repost this fake news that "no one has ever caught covid in a school" - because |I have watched it happen in front of my eyes, and experienced it myself.

What I really struggle to understand is (putting the research/data aside) how a significant proportion of the U.K., including it appears some teaching staff, appear to have absolutely no sense of community responsibility. Even if magically schools prove to operate in a bubble outside of this Pandemic, where are the lessons we are teaching the next generation about responsibility towards others? Where is the concern for the vulnerable in the wider community, where opening schools under current guidelines may well have a negative impact. All I see in the main are selfish arguments (often dressed up as a concern for kids). We all should be playing our part in getting through this, however small that might be. We are all living the biggest PHSE lesson for kids sat right in front of us with this school situation! As for panic I stand by an observation I made previously. I honestly believe the most panicked people are in fact those who just want to carry on as normal. I think they’re v often so unable to cope with reality that they prefer head in sand, everyone else is neurotic. That way they don’t have to deal with something they would struggle with.

@Oaktree55

What I really struggle to understand is (putting the research/data aside) how a significant proportion of the U.K., including it appears some teaching staff, appear to have absolutely no sense of community responsibility. Even if magically schools prove to operate in a bubble outside of this Pandemic, where are the lessons we are teaching the next generation about responsibility towards others? Where is the concern for the vulnerable in the wider community, where opening schools under current guidelines may well have a negative impact. All I see in the main are selfish arguments (often dressed up as a concern for kids). We all should be playing our part in getting through this, however small that might be. We are all living the biggest PHSE lesson for kids sat right in front of us with this school situation! As for panic I stand by an observation I made previously. I honestly believe the most panicked people are in fact those who just want to carry on as normal. I think they’re v often so unable to cope with reality that they prefer head in sand, everyone else is neurotic. That way they don’t have to deal with something they would struggle with.

So you think we should shut everything down.

@lazylinguist

Where do you get this information from Ophelia?

You can get this information anywhere. It's not a massive risk for the majority because most people get mild to moderate symptoms or none at all. Surely everyone knows that by now?

What do you class as mild?

Government class "mild" as not needing hospital treatment and yet those people are now starting to be found to have heart and lung damage - I'd hardly class that as mild.

I don’t think school children should do homeschool until the vaccine.

That was in reply to everything has to stop in pp

@herecomesthsun so you are only concerned with the issues affecting children of the age of your own kids? Sod secondary and other ages then- because it doesn't affect you? It doesn't really work like that though!

I don’t think Oaktree wants to shut everything down. She wants them to open safely.

I want them to open safely with social distancing too. There are many people trying to offer ways to do with with great creative and ambitious ideas. They are the ones with the can do attitude.

But they’re being blocked by the Head-in-sand mentality from those who stubbornly want to carry on as normal even though that is very likely to not work and lead to far more chaos than a creative plan.

I agree with you Oaktree.

@OpheliasCrayon I'm very glad that there are teachers like you speaking out for the most vulnerable children in our society (who could lose so much it hardly bears thinking about).

@soupdragon where did I say everything should be shut down?!?

That’s the typical response from someone who has nothing intelligent to add to a debate.

There are plenty of things we can do as members of the public. Write to our MP’s say the current guidelines for schools are ineffective. Suggest face coverings be mandated. Say we all need easily accessible/easy to understand up to date data re transmission in the local area in which we live. That way people can make informed decisions as numbers rise. Sign on line petitions. Educate our kids about the moment in history they are living through, via conversations etc. Speak to your Head Teachers make them aware you support measures to keep the school community safer, ask if your kids could wear face coverings.

The majority of tween/teen kids I know want to be allowed to wear face coverings at school.

There are many things we can do which individually might not get us anywhere but if we did them en masse might change things.

[quote Chaotic45]@herecomesthsun so you are only concerned with the issues affecting children of the age of your own kids? Sod secondary and other ages then- because it doesn't affect you? It doesn't really work like that though! [/quote]
If you read the discussion, I was agreeing with something Senga Strawberry said about different ages of children, I tagged her in my post.

I have children across primary and secondary and of course I am concerned about them both. But there is indeed more of an issue with risk and spread in secondary.

The biggest issue we have is that schools have been so underfunded for so long with a "pack em in" attitude to class sizes that we are now faced with an almost impossible situation. Classrooms are too small, with too many students (often not even enough chairs to accommodate them let alone room to spread out), windows that don't open, or only open a crack, limited toilet facilities and even less time for staff to actually use them. I recently left a teaching post in a school which was a new build. The canteen (only one in the school) was designed to accommodate 150 students. There were 750 students in the school who all had the same lunchtime.... Saving money has been the priority for so long and it seems that even in these difficult times this is still the case.
The only wise and sensible answer is to significantly increase school budgets to allow for more staff and smaller classes- possibly renting additional portable classroom spaces if needed. Throwing everyone back into school, eyes shut, fingers in ears and hoping for the best WILL see cases rise and in all likelihood, death.

[quote IncidentsandAccidents]@OpheliasCrayon I'm very glad that there are teachers like you speaking out for the most vulnerable children in our society (who could lose so much it hardly bears thinking about).[/quote]
I'm glad someone doesn't just think I'm a horrible human being and actually sees my point .

@OpheliasCrayon I am sure you aren’t a horrible human being and I for one could not do the job you do.

I get so frustrated with the incompetence by which this Pandemic has been handled in the U.K. and the appalling communication to the public.

I feel very strongly that if our Educational Establishments fall into line without at least comment at the absurdity of what they are being asked to do, what future is there for kids education?! We’ve all got so caught up in the pantomime, education surely starts with teaching the ability to think critically. Imagine our hopefully well educated kids in 10 years questioning the current folly of the U.K. approach. Do you not think they might question “gosh why didn’t we wear face coverings in Senior School that would have helped”.

I read about the odd school going against guidance and mandating masks and think there is a school that know what they’re doing. It feels so tainted for those in positions of trust to educate, being dragged down by guidance and seemingly complicit with it.

Oxford and Cambridge I believe decided to go fully on line months ago. That says something.

I posted this on another thread

This is how it's going in America

www.nytimes.com/2020/08/06/us/coronavirus-students.html

www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/97000-children-test-positive-coronavirus-22494909

UK

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/coronavirus-schools-primary-secondary-pupils-risk-phe-latest-a9664086.html

Those are just 3 random papers I have chosen. Others media outlets around the globe are publishing similar headlines.

Interesting read that also mentions how to try and reduce the spread in school
rs-delve.github.io/reports/2020/07/24/balancing-the-risk-of-pupils-returning-to-schools.html

Found the above on
www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/schoolsnet/school-provision-during-covid-19-crisis/dfe-and-other-national-guidance/

The first link is interesting @canigooutyet because it talks about a school where masks were being worn and temperatures checked but still the virus spread through pupils. What change do UK schools with none of that in place have?

[quote herecomesthsun]@SengaStrawberry
It’s not. I’m not worrying about it though as mine aren’t in the year groups that have to. Numbers are very low (1 in 18000 with the virus) and as long as we keep being careful in and out of school I see no reason it won’t be OK.

Numbers are apparently 1 in 1900 as of last week (fairly stable at the moment) (might be a typo above)

My concern is that if a school of 2000 gets together, then it is statistically likely to have that 1 infected person in it, and infections could rapidly pass to several other people before the index case is detected. Spread possible in corridors, on buses etc. We have enouth cases in the community (and rising in the past month) for significant concern.

But yes, much less of an issue in primary than secondary.[/quote]
It’s not a typo as I am in Scotland

@dododotheconga

The first link is interesting *@canigooutyet* because it talks about a school where masks were being worn and temperatures checked but still the virus spread through pupils. What change do UK schools with none of that in place have?

It was an interesting read. Couldn't believe what happened to the pupil who took a picture of the packed hallway in their school and posted it.

And doesn't the US have a fab school bus service unlike the UK?

Why wasn’t there a spike 3 Weeks after kids went back in June?

Every morning I saw 100s of kids walking to school; mine went back- their classes/groups were full.

Yet in the local news I didn’t see one story about covid in a local school amongst kids or staff.... ok I lie one sxhool about 45 min away was closed one day for a deep clean as A kids parent was covid positive

I really wish people would stop saying "You just want schools to stay shut" unless someone has actually said that they want schools to stay shut.

It's incredibly weak and designed to sow division. I have seen very few people asking for schools to stay shut, just as I have seen very few people calling people murderers for wanting to send their children to school. It is a really despicable arguing technique straight out of Trump's playbook. It doesn't matter what people actually say or do, facts are unimportant, if you accuse people of something negative enough times, it will stick.

OverThe Rainbow88 are you talking about primary or secondary?

@OverTheRainbow88

Why wasn’t there a spike 3 Weeks after kids went back in June?

Every morning I saw 100s of kids walking to school; mine went back- their classes/groups were full.

Yet in the local news I didn’t see one story about covid in a local school amongst kids or staff.... ok I lie one sxhool about 45 min away was closed one day for a deep clean as A kids parent was covid positive

The class sizes were smaller and it meant the bubbles could be protected. The test of the country was still in lock down so less people on public transport, in work, in pubs etc.

For the majority of those in school aside from other key workers, their parents/carers were going straight home.

From September, parents can go and do whatever they want whilst other businesses are still allowed to stay open. They may themselves also travel on public transport to get to their SD place of employment.

From September, the bubble becomes a unicorn.

@OverTheRainbow88 When year 10 went back in June, in my school, we were averaging at 4 students per class. They also had to socially distance from each other in the building, and outside at break and lunchtime at all times.

In September we are looking at 32 in a class. Whole year groups of 250 don’t have to socially distance at all.

I think therefore it is only wise to be cautious and raise concerns.

The reason there wasn't a spike after students returned in June was because there were far fewer students, times were staggered so that the groups didn't come into any contact at all in schools, classrooms only had half the amount of students in and people could maintain a 2m distance at all times. We also were able in my school to only use rooms with really good ventilation and keep all the doors and windows open at all times. It felt very safe. Teachers are not complaining about returning to work in the conditions we had in June. In fact, I think we could easily accommodate many more students without increasing the risk overly.

Oh and of course, a lot of the lessons happened outside because of the weather.

If the weather is still like this in September, you have rooms with 30+ people without any social distancing, without any ventilation, without funds for extra cleaning etc because until a handful of groups of 15, you cannot fit them all outside.

Even during their fire practice drills many schools don't have enough space to SD.

Come to think of it, neither do all the office buildings and shops around me. But at least they have other means of protecting others unlike schools.

Why wasn’t there a spike 3 Weeks after kids went back in June?

Where we are the return was very restricted.
Classes were in small bubbles of no more than 15. In many cases classes were much smaller, especially at the secondary school.
Start and end times were staggered, as were breaks and lunch.
It wasn't proper classes for many, especially at secondary - there was no moving around to different classes for different lessons, and the classes only saw one or two teachers.

At my infant school we didn't take in any extra year groups as we were already full from KW and vulnerable (not clinically) children before that. They did start at the same time mostly, but with restrictions on how they came into school and who with, they were in bubbles of up to 15 children with 2 members of staff - no swapping, and no additional adults allowed in to the bubbles. No official SDing, but enough room to have one child per double desk. No sharing of equipment going on. There were no official playtimes - each bubble had its own area in the playground which they could use. Lunch was eaten in the classrooms.

This is nothing like it will be in September.