Coronovirus IS transmitted in schools

[mosquitofeast]

And lots of teachers have died

I am just clarifying this, as I don't know how many times I have read on Mumsnet that this has never happened. I don't know where this misinformation is coming from, but its rubbish

It was transmitted several hundred times in my school (secondary)before lock down. Hundreds of children and dozens of staff were affected. Some have been seriously ill and have been left with long term health problems, such as low lung capacity and loss of hearing.

I am a teacher and I was infected at school. I did not use public transport, or go into any shops or other businesses for the whole of March, and I was living alone. The only time I was in any contact with anyone else was in school

A school near us (also secondary) had to close a week before school closures were announced, as so many teachers were infected.

Thankfully, no staff or student in our school died, although several students have lost parents, and many have lost grandparents. One of my sixthformers has withdrawn her university application as her mum has lost a lung and a leg and now can't run her home and care for her younger children on her own.

However, according to the union, around 200 school staff have dies to date, so we have just been lucky so far.

So please don't repost this fake news that "no one has ever caught covid in a school" - because |I have watched it happen in front of my eyes, and experienced it myself.

[TaxTheRatFarms]

Worra it’s widely understood that it is transmitted more by respiratory droplets, and very little evidence that it’s transmitted by fomites (touch).

And yes, people could have caught it in the staff room from a kettle, or they could have caught it when crouching down next to a student to explain things (I do this and I teach secondary), squeezing down corridors with yelling, jostling teenagers (or, if you’re desperate to stick with your fomite theory, then from marking students’ books and tidying up the highlighters and glue sticks they’ve used.)

Who does it benefit to pretend that it can’t be transmitted in schools?

[ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia]

Very sad to hear this. Naturally we all wish those impacted all the best for a recovery and condolences for those lost in such tragic circumstances.

I am open minded and curious and have never entrusted any of the mainstream news channels as I suspect much is either yet to be discovered or still unknown as to the potential impact of this evidently deadly disease. I am also conscious that there is very selective media coverage. Some may use the term censorship.

Schools by definition being an indoor setting with mass gatherings of children and adults from countless households (all untested naturally as obviously still no compulsive mass repeat test track trace and isolate) is a perfect incubator and vector for this invisible highly contagious killer virus. The only difference between the school and a care home is the average age profile and therefore different overall health demographic for recovery.

Covid evidently only discriminates on those least healthy and with maximum exposure (duration and frequency) to others in a close proximity and enclosed space. Lack of ventilation and recirculating breathing space inside schools does not help either.

[jessstan2]

@Nicedayforawedding

My point is that it’s a highly contagious illness. I’m not Einstein and I don’t think you’re that thick that you need a source for everything but by a process of deduction I can tell you that there will be a host of outbreaks if you stick large numbers of children in classrooms together.

But I guess we should suck it up.

That.

[TaxTheRatFarms]

Thanks Niceday and mosquitofeast He’s getting more energy back every day which is great to see (although he still needs to put the weight back on that he lost! He thinks he should eat chocolate all day every day, sadly for him I disagree!)

[Tinty]

Nobody is saying it can’t be transmitted in schools, but what is your solution, shut schools for the next 3 years?

Everyone else has to go back to work, and if you tell me that children can’t social distance and all adults can, go and take a walk around your local shopping centre or supermarket and see how that looks in reality. Or look at the beaches this weekend and see just how much social distancing was going on there.

Yes you will have to be careful in schools and make sure the children social distance, but that is (in most cases), a lot easier than telling adults to stay 2 metres away from staff in shops or expecting them to wear a mask.

In the place I work 1 in 5 people come in wearing a mask. 3 in 5 people walk in holding one and say I don’t have to wear this do I? And the last person doesn’t even bother to bring a mask or they’ve left it in their car! These are all adults! Children do not come into my workplace.

[LemonadeAndDaisyChains]

Nobody is saying it can’t be transmitted in schools, but what is your solution, shut schools for the next 3 years?

Exactly. come on you have to get realistic - children need an education and we can't keep them off indefinitely!

[TaxTheRatFarms]

Tinty that must drive you up the wall with people not wearing their masks properly. It must be really stressful for you.

Unfortunately I work in a secondary and children will not be able to social distance. There’s absolutely not enough space to put desks 2 metres apart and still fit a full class of students in. There aren’t any extra classrooms we could use to split classes and reduce class size.

Instead, we have year group “bubbles” of 200 plus students, who don’t have to social distance from each other.

Technically I need to stay two metres away from all students, but in my classroom there’s not quite enough room for that.

I wonder if a lot of parents are just not aware of this? Your child will be in school shoulder to shoulder with their classmates. There will not be social distancing.

This in no way means that I don’t want to go back to work. I want to be back at work, see my students, teach them, know they’re safe and happy. But I also want them to stay safe in school, and keep me safe in school.

[TaxTheRatFarms]

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

Nobody is saying it can’t be transmitted in schools, but what is your solution, shut schools for the next 3 years?

Exactly. come on you have to get realistic - children need an education and we can't keep them off indefinitely!

No one wants schools to be closed indefinitely. That’s not what this thread is about. I think you’d find it incredibly hard to find any teacher on Mumsnet stating this.

We (teachers and parents) want schools to be safe for students and safe for staff.

Would be lovely if some government money could to go to schools for cleaning products and staff, for more space so class sizes could be reduced. Some schools in Europe will be opening with class sizes of 10-15, whereas here will be 30.

[Limetreeinthefrontgarden]

Nobody is saying it can’t be transmitted in schools, but what is your solution, shut schools for the next 3 years?

Yes, they have been saying that: www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-schools-reopen-children-covid-study-boris-johnson-a9661686.html

The point of the OP was not to provide a solution. That is what politicians are for. The OP is pointing out that claiming that there is no or minimal risk is incorrect. Just because the "solutions" are very challenging or not possible, it doesn't change the fact that covid can be transmitted in schools relatively easily.

Yes you will have to be careful in schools and make sure the children social distance, but that is (in most cases), a lot easier than telling adults to stay 2 metres away from staff in shops or expecting them to wear a mask.

Sorry, but no! If adults won't do it, no hope with kids!!!

As a teacher myself, I think that we have to be rational and get on with it. This disease will carry on the background potentially for years. But I completely understand the concern of other teachers. I also don't agree with pretending that there is zero risk, just because it is a nightmare to balance the needs of the kids against the safety of the teachers.

The government has been all over the place with schools. They have tried the "heros" tactic, bringing up muscle memory of "hardline unions" and now they are on "expert studies".

The basic point is that the government has seriously underfunded education for the last 10 years. With that has gone the bandwidth to fund more flexible solutions.

[lydia7986]

Of course it can spread in schools. No one is denying that.

The argument is simply that the overall net damage to society that would be caused by children continuing to miss out on structured education will be far greater in the long run, given that most children experience only a mild illness, if they have symptoms at all.

I understand some teachers are worried, but really, if you’re in reasonably good health, the chances are you won’t be severely ill either if you do catch it.

For obvious reasons, we hear far more about the severe cases than about the tonnes of people who were only mildly ill. This is skewing our perceptions of what it’s like for most people.

I had it in early Spring (subsequently confirmed by antibody test). At the time, my illness was so mild that I was convinced it couldn’t be Covid - I just had felt very tired for five days, with a temperature on the first day. After a week, I was completely better and I continue to be in completely normal health. And, by the way, I’m (just) over 60...

[Limetreeinthefrontgarden]

I just posted this newspaper article about low-risk of transmission in schools: //www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-schools-reopen-children-covid-study-boris-johnson-a9661686.html

The article starts: One of the most detailed studies yet will show that it is safe for schools to fully reopen next month, a leading child health expert has assured parents and students.

Here is a quote towards the end (my bold): “Everything you do to reopen society will impact the national R [rate], but reopening schools, we believe, has a very small impact on it. The majority of cases are staff, not students,” Prof Viner said.

(Professor Russell Viner, president of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health.)

In a nutshell: schools are safe for kids, but less so for adult staff.

[IHateCoronavirus]

Op I’m another teacher who is certain I became infected in school. 6 colleagues also V ill the week before lockdown. We each had close contact with children from a family with a positive test result. However as we were not eligible for testing at the time our infections will not be part of any data. 🤷‍♀️
Schools need to go back, but they need to go back fully informed of the risks in order to be fully prepared. Putting our hands over our ears singing “la la la no proof!” Is going to give people a false sense of security and encourage more risk taking.
To put it into context. A close family member had just died. We are thankfully allowed a 30 minute church service with

[TaxTheRatFarms]

In a nutshell: schools are safe for kids, but less so for adult staff

The problem this leads to then (if this study is accurate - it’s a pretty contentious one. Read up about South Korea’s school openings for balance.) is that if the adults are more affected, who is going to teach your children while the teachers are off sick?

[TaxTheRatFarms]

Weirdly, this part always gets omitted when people post the Viner study.

“[Viner] signalled his support for the independent Sage’s recommendation that “an effective test and trace mechanism . . . is very important to mitigate the uncertainty”.

Interesting that the government will commit to reopening schools but won’t commit to an effective track and trace mechanism.

“Interesting” as in “shit”, of course.

[WombOfOnesOwn]

200 teachers sounds like a lot!

But it isn't. In fact, teachers have been quite shielded.

Of course, there are 500,000 teachers in the UK, a nation of 60 million people. That means eight-tenths of a percent of the UK population is teachers.

In the UK so far, 45,000 people have died of COVID complications.

Eight-tenths of one percent of this figure would be about 400.

Teachers have died at HALF the rate of the UK population in general. Do you expect teachers should simply be regarded as golden, irreplaceable heroes that must be put on a pedestal and never regarded in the same way as the rest of the population?

It's WILDLY ridiculous for teachers to whine that they're somehow being imposed upon when a quick look at the numbers reveals they're in no way being more impacted than anyone else.

[TaxTheRatFarms]

You’re aware that schools have been “closed” since March?

My school usually has 1300 pupils. From March - end of July we had max 30/40 in per day.

Do you think that may also have influenced the figures somewhat?

Speaking for myself, I don’t regard myself as on any kind of pedestal, but I would quite like some form of protection (that most other workers have at their jobs) whether it’s being able to wear a mask, reduced class sizes or even just a classroom with a window BECAUSE that way your child receives continuous education, rather than patchy education as I’m off sick.

[WombOfOnesOwn]

Many workplaces have been closed since March. It seems very much like teachers are being impacted just like other worker types who have had time out of the regular workplace.

There's absolutely no evidence there's somehow extra transmission to teachers or that teachers have been unduly impacted. I don't see why there's so much special pleading for this one profession and no others.

[ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia]

I suspect countless schools Covid related fatalities and ongoing pain and suffering is endured in media silence and not reported but muzzled.

As a parent I fully understand the greater picture of putting lives first before livelihood. However as many of you would too often read on these mums gossip threads full of from families with less empathy and understanding and simply had enough of issues enduring home working and home schooling. I get that as I am in the same boat as it where.

However unless the government and relevant authorities involved get this (schooling) right we will pay a greater long term price. I am not for repeating a year or any of such extreme nonsense but I also would ideally like to request some sort of in schooling provision outside of hotspot localities. So schools need to be as Covid diligent as possible and insist on children being PPEd up as otherwise without social distancing you are only setting up for trouble. Ideally as with my school ban all parents from entering and insist on airport style pre screening checks outside the entrance with crowd control such as use of remote body temperature equipment and have ready a healthy stack of new possibly school branded reusable masks to sell. Covid risk mitigation needs to be serious and not superficial or lip service as you can't cheat the virus!

I am in central London and know that many have gamed the residency school entrance requirements (you know usual suspect selfish tricks like mid term property rental or fake relatives addresses within small catchment area etc) and now are the obvious weak link with highest Covid exposure on their busy TfL shared mass public transportation commute passing by endless local schools. My school during the temporary soft reopening insisted on only teachers within walking and cycling distance (or those who drive a motorcycle) were permitted on site. The school unfortunately can not mandate but only heavily recommend for children to walk or scooter to school. Once the asymptomatic carriers have entered the school bubble then naturally you will expect transmission.

[TaxTheRatFarms]

I don't see why there's so much special pleading for this one profession and no others

Is there, though? Teachers aren’t asking for schools to remain closed. We don’t even have the power to do that! All teachers are asking for is the same protection that other workers (who work in relatively close contact with people) are given.

Can you explain why you don’t want teachers to have that?

[Nicknamegoeshere]

I am a primary teacher and I'm pretty certain I had it in January (I was also pregnant at the time). If you think about it, the school environment is a perfect one for the spreading of viruses unfortunately.

[ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia]

Teachers being critical key workers must be afforded their due respect and workplace safety protection. Just as for all other critical key workers necessary for a functioning economy to operate. Otherwise I would imagine teaching staff sickness and illness including stress related will force schools to close temporarily.

We need to strike the fine equilibrium as it is evidently a fine balancing art with little room for error. The error being potentially fatal. There is apparently talk of some possible temporary Covid special measures such as half days or rotational weekly on off half size classes to reduce risk but naturally mean issues for dual working parents to accommodate.

There are only weeks to go for English schools and the Covid safety data from Scotland soon would be invaluable to allow other UK schools to be appropriately proactive.

[ilovesooty]

@TaxTheRatFarms

I don't see why there's so much special pleading for this one profession and no others

Is there, though? Teachers aren’t asking for schools to remain closed. We don’t even have the power to do that! All teachers are asking for is the same protection that other workers (who work in relatively close contact with people) are given.

Can you explain why you don’t want teachers to have that?

Exactly. And expecting safety measures in the workplace is not "whining".

[ilovesooty]

@Userzzz

If you're so scared of catching Covid, maybe you should quit your job and find another profession.

And that is utterly ridiculous.

[TaxTheRatFarms]

I know Sooty
Also I’d imagine first in the queue of people complaining if schools had to go to half days as teachers were off sick, or had quit.

“But you told us to quit!”

“Yes but I just meant shut up because I can’t be bothered to see your point of view!”