Coronovirus IS transmitted in schools

[mosquitofeast]

And lots of teachers have died

I am just clarifying this, as I don't know how many times I have read on Mumsnet that this has never happened. I don't know where this misinformation is coming from, but its rubbish

It was transmitted several hundred times in my school (secondary)before lock down. Hundreds of children and dozens of staff were affected. Some have been seriously ill and have been left with long term health problems, such as low lung capacity and loss of hearing.

I am a teacher and I was infected at school. I did not use public transport, or go into any shops or other businesses for the whole of March, and I was living alone. The only time I was in any contact with anyone else was in school

A school near us (also secondary) had to close a week before school closures were announced, as so many teachers were infected.

Thankfully, no staff or student in our school died, although several students have lost parents, and many have lost grandparents. One of my sixthformers has withdrawn her university application as her mum has lost a lung and a leg and now can't run her home and care for her younger children on her own.

However, according to the union, around 200 school staff have dies to date, so we have just been lucky so far.

So please don't repost this fake news that "no one has ever caught covid in a school" - because |I have watched it happen in front of my eyes, and experienced it myself.

@Flimflamfloogety

If OP's hyperbole is actually true, then surely many teachers have already had it and have some immunity? In that case they can get back in the classroom and do their bloody job.

1. We've bene doing our bloody job, just from a distance, because the Government closed down schools. And when we have been in with vulnerable students we have also done our job.
2. With this being a novel virus, we know very little about immunity from it. Less than 30% show prolonged antibody production, and only a small amount of research has been done into T Cell production.
3. Why can people not accept that infections (be it bacterial, viral fungal etc) will spread in a fucking school? Everything else does.

Schools do not have any of the protections any other internal space has, apart from your own home. And in many parts of the country, you now can't have anyone else in your home.

Also completely agree that test and trace is crucial. Perhaps more crucial than anything.

The fact that Gavin Williamson has said that Covid does not spread in schools means he will almost certainly get replaced in the autumn because while schools may not be the riskiest places, it’s daft to say that that it doesn’t spread in schools.

That all being said, I am adamant that the best place for my children to be is at school. I am confident that the school (primary) will take all steps necessary to minimise any spread.
I can’t see how that can be realistic in a secondary school but again I think the kids needs to go back if at all possible.

Hang on Marsha I see where op has said “transmitted hundreds of times”. I work in a secondary and I’m not sure I could agree that it was transmitted hundreds of times, but with asymptomatic cases, who knows.

In the last week our attendance dropped a lot (some classes missing 5 or 6 students) although we can’t be sure if it was with symptoms or parents keeping kids home as they were scared of kids catching it. I had to send a few kids home who had coughs and high temperatures in the last week. We were lucky enough not to be in an area with particularly high rates and hopefully that will stay true.

You clearly say that 200 teachers have died and 100x that amount have left the profession due to safety fears so 20,000

Don’t try and backtrack

Can you give evidence of the 200 teachers? I work in one of the largest LAs in the country with large BAME and we have not had any teachers for of cv19. We have had teachers for during lockdown as we have teachers did every month. Our staff turnover is the lowest in memory this Sept (so 30 years)

@MarshaBradyo

Bluebell yep these words were used about the classroom situation

terrifying experiences and trauma

This did not happen in her school before lockdown. Children were not coming in so ill and choking, parents and gps were not dying in numbers to leave students grieving in class.

Of course its true. The op works in some weird covid epicentre....

I agree the government need to come up with a safe and reasonable solution. It's not just a worry for teachers but parents too, that their children may catch it/bring it home into households so this affects everyone, not just teachers.

I'll be intrigued into this large worldwide study about coronavirus and schools due when it's published.

Schools have to start in a September but obviously we hope that there is a good system in place. We cannot be the first only country not reopening schools.

To be honest I can't imagine many offices and places of employment feel safe at the moment. At my office, there are masks, hand gel, and signs everywhere lol, but we all share the same photocopier, scanner, files, kettles, bathroom, sink area, etc etc. Pubs - I'd hate to work in a pub, dealing with drunk adults , in places that may be poorly ventilated and having to constantly touch items that customers touch. I think this issue goes beyond schools.

A primary teacher post (one of few available) hot hundreds of applications in June, typically it would be about 10-20. Teachers are not resigning and leaving due to safety fears

I’m sure if pay would be stopped solutions would be found pretty fast!

You can stop paying me but that isn’t going to solve anything at all. School staff cannot solve the issue of an unsafe work environment - in comparison with other work environments - without someone high up in the food chain recognising that the virus will transmit amongst teens in enclosed, poorly ventilated spaces, that parents will send their children in with symptoms, and that there are kids out there who will not be able to help themselves and think coughing on teachers and their peers is utterly hilarious. Until basic PPE is expected school attire, funding is available for increased cleaning, till hefty fines for parents who flout quarantine and testing are a very real possibility, till track and trace works seemless,y and children who refuse to abide by the rules are excluded for the duration of the pandemic, then nothing will change. Frankly, threatening me with non payment is the least of my worries.

@Jrobhatch29 exactly my thoughts! Honestly I've never read so much claptrap in my life.

@Polnm

You clearly say that 200 teachers have died and 100x that amount have left the profession due to safety fears so 20,000

Don’t try and backtrack

Can you give evidence of the 200 teachers? I work in one of the largest LAs in the country with large BAME and we have not had any teachers for of cv19. We have had teachers for during lockdown as we have teachers did every month. Our staff turnover is the lowest in memory this Sept (so 30 years)

Die not for or did

@Polnm

A primary teacher post (one of few available) hot hundreds of applications in June, typically it would be about 10-20. Teachers are not resigning and leaving due to safety fears

Agreed. There are 3 maternity posts in my school. We were inundated with applications and have appointed 3 new teachers no problem

Jrobhatch29

Kids may not have been coming in “choking” but they were certainly coming in with bad coughs and fevers in the last week of school. Parents kept sending them in as the government advice was “if you haven’t been to China you won’t have coronavirus.”

Oh how we look back and laugh at that gem. (To be clear, I don’t blame the parents for sending kids in but I do think the government should have given better advice.)

@Polnm

A primary teacher post (one of few available) hot hundreds of applications in June, typically it would be about 10-20. Teachers are not resigning and leaving due to safety fears

I know! It’s almost like we love our jobs and our students, and don’t want to resign, just want to be afforded some basic protection.

@TaxTheRatFarms

Hang on Marsha I see where op has said “transmitted hundreds of times”. I work in a secondary and I’m not sure I could agree that it was transmitted hundreds of times, but with asymptomatic cases, who knows.

In the last week our attendance dropped a lot (some classes missing 5 or 6 students) although we can’t be sure if it was with symptoms or parents keeping kids home as they were scared of kids catching it. I had to send a few kids home who had coughs and high temperatures in the last week. We were lucky enough not to be in an area with particularly high rates and hopefully that will stay true.

Tax quite a few parents did keep their dc home, due to feeling worried. I know because of class WhatsApp.

I am in London so at that time high transmission, zero cases in primary (throughout whole term actually, just one parent) other dc says none in his class.

I have no problem with people arguing around whether it is transmitted in schools, but do have an issue with made up stories such as op’s as people will react to it. It may be anxiety inducing for some.

I am as scared as anyone, but I think posts like the OP's are inflammatory. Her volume of cases and deaths is complete crap.

And as for bereavements, there will always be bereavements in a large school - or any school. Some pupils sadly lose parents, but a large number of pupils will lose grandparents... because we have not found a cure for old age. Atm there's this new weird thinking that any death must be a) covid-related and b) is a tragedy even if the person is 105 and had had dementia for 20 years.

Teachers - and pupils - need to feel safe. Well, as safe as is possible. More testing, more masks and more cleaning. And more information as to where is a hot spot. I'd be more afraid of being a teacher in Blackburn than in Barnstaple.

Teachers are not resigning and leaving due to safety fears

They are. I know of 3 earlier than would have been retirements, and two 50 somethings with well off partners/inheritances that have caused them to say ‘no time like the present’. There is not a shortage of primary teachers generally but it does depend where you live in all subjects. I teach a shortage area subject in a generally deprived area where unemployment is high and people hang onto jobs. I could have moved to every school in my local area several times over in the last 5 years. Don’t be fooled. There is a crisis and increasingly our schools are staffed by under 30s with few experienced mentors to fall back on. You absolutely should be concerned for your children and their education. Things are not good in broad terms, even if sometimes local experience would suggest otherwise.

I Idon't see why there's so much special pleading for this one profession and no others.*
Indeed it is puzzling. I am a teacher, became one because I genuinely think education is as essential as food and shelter. I was against schools closing at all, and desperately hope we are back in September without any SD/mask nonsense. If people are disproportionately scared to go into their workplace they should resign and find a job in a 'safe' place (which doesn't exist)

Kids may not have been coming in “choking” but they were certainly coming in with bad coughs and fevers in the last week of school. Parents kept sending them in as the government advice was “if you haven’t been to China you won’t have coronavirus

It wasn't even China but Wuhan lol

I remember coming back from Spain on February 15th and a week later I became bed ridden with an awful flu like thing and I mentioned it to the doctors who asked if I'd been to Wuhan. As I hadn't I was deemed fine.

@TaxTheRatFarms

Jrobhatch29

Kids may not have been coming in “choking” but they were certainly coming in with bad coughs and fevers in the last week of school. Parents kept sending them in as the government advice was “if you haven’t been to China you won’t have coronavirus.”

Oh how we look back and laugh at that gem. (To be clear, I don’t blame the parents for sending kids in but I do think the government should have given better advice.)

I agree with that. My own little boy was off before lockdown with a cough and fever. Hes been off since beginning of march. His school closed a week earlier than schools were officially closed due to high absense. Nobody in the whole school community became seriously ill though and it is 3 form entry with classes of 30 and also has a large nursery. I think alot were kept off due to fear too. Also the weeks before schools closed werent we told to keep kids off with any symptoms? Plus siblings. My older son had to stay off when I reported my younger ill. The self isolation rule was in place before lockdown so I dont think the advise was if you havent been to china then come to school on the fortnight or so before schools closed

Before the end of February they were asking anyone who had been to Italy skiing to self-isolate.

@lifeafter50 my DH is a partner in a professional firm and is responsible for the office he works in. Have all been WFH for lockdown. They are now looking at going back into the office and DH has been putting the plans in place. They are still going to predominantly WFH. You have to book your desk if you want to go in and the number of desks available have been drastically reduced. All desks have been cleared of stuff and will be cleaned thoroughly every day. Most meetings will be done virtually. Fridge, kettle, microwave not allowed to be used. Hand sanitiser by every door.

Very different to how it used to be and very different to a classroom and the safety measures being put in place there.

This is a copy of a post I wrote on another thread in May. It seems relevant to this discussion -

On the topic of the role of older children in the spread of the virus, there is a retrospective study of the students and staff of a high school Covid-19 hotspot in France which does seem to show that it can take hold in such an environment.

Around 40% of the teachers and students tested positive for antibodies. Parents and siblings were also tested and a seropositive rate of around 10% was found.

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.18.20071134v1.full.pdf

This is one school. It was in the epicentre of the outbreak in France. I am not sure how representative it would be for possible developments in UK schools but it is certainly worth taking note of.

Some medical professionals and epidemiologists have suggested that the virus could have been seeded in the UK by students returning from half-term skiing breaks.

@Aesopfable

Before the end of February they were asking anyone who had been to Italy skiing to self-isolate.

In the school I work at, and our local secondary it was “only isolate if you have symptoms”.

I remember some parents being (understandably!) really worried about that at the time.

@lifeafter50 because other professions have protective measures in place so no pleading required.

Just because you don't want protection doesn't mean others are as reckless