Coronovirus IS transmitted in schools

[mosquitofeast]

And lots of teachers have died

I am just clarifying this, as I don't know how many times I have read on Mumsnet that this has never happened. I don't know where this misinformation is coming from, but its rubbish

It was transmitted several hundred times in my school (secondary)before lock down. Hundreds of children and dozens of staff were affected. Some have been seriously ill and have been left with long term health problems, such as low lung capacity and loss of hearing.

I am a teacher and I was infected at school. I did not use public transport, or go into any shops or other businesses for the whole of March, and I was living alone. The only time I was in any contact with anyone else was in school

A school near us (also secondary) had to close a week before school closures were announced, as so many teachers were infected.

Thankfully, no staff or student in our school died, although several students have lost parents, and many have lost grandparents. One of my sixthformers has withdrawn her university application as her mum has lost a lung and a leg and now can't run her home and care for her younger children on her own.

However, according to the union, around 200 school staff have dies to date, so we have just been lucky so far.

So please don't repost this fake news that "no one has ever caught covid in a school" - because |I have watched it happen in front of my eyes, and experienced it myself.

@MoreListeningLessChatting

Why is the misinformation our government ministers are peddling allowed to circulate on MSN?

Because the information they are feeding us as fact - is exaggeration for the purpose of manipulating the minds of those that are still listening to (and believing!) them.

I'm assuming she means currently, as in through her contact with pupils during lockdown.

No what she has described was the situation in class. Perhaps not clearly enough on this thread but this is the second time I’ve heard this story. With many grieving students, choking students (why were they in school so I’ll?), deafness, it sounds far worse than any situation by a long chalk. It’s made up a shame people are just accepting the anxiety inducing scaremongering though.

I have only read the first couple pages so far, but along with teachers who definitely should be protected there are also nursery workers who have been back at work since mid/end June and they wear masks to protect themselves. The government only want to tell you what you want to hear and the public fall for it because people will only interpret the rules to twist to suit themselves. People who dont want there children at home and want them back at school will side with the "there is no risk" brigade to suit what they want to happen in their world. I personally think its disgraceful that children are disregarded and the pretence from the government is it's all about losing education. Maybe I'm lucky as I have teaching behind me and can adequately homeschool. It brings me to boiling point when I hear parents moaning about homeschooling too when all they really have been doing is "homework" with their children! Homeschooling is not the same and involves heaps more. I am not a teacher BUT they deserve a lot more respect & should be treated as key workers and provided with ppe etc they have just been left to get on with it and they have done a great job so far. As far as I am concerned the government just want economy working and blow anyone's health.

It is a ridiculous idea that as you enter school the magic of the place means you are at lower risk of catching it. So I stop for petrol, lunch etc and put mask on for the 5 mins but enter school for 7 hours and suddenly don't need a mask? No logic.

I'm a special needs teacher who worked throughout. No social distancing, personal care for students and lots of staff obviously meant we had our cases in school. Pupils and staff. This was with only a few children to a bubble, as numbers increase so will cases. Don't believe everything the government says, ask someone who is actual working in a school if your struggling with the logic of how the virus is transmitted. Of course children can get it and pass it on. So too can all the other staff with no ppe who are working in an enclosed area with the children.....

Some of the comments on here are a disgrace. Teachers want to go back to work - they are just rightly concerned that the measures being put in place everywhere else- masks, social distancing, PPE etc are magically not needed in school. In a classroom with 30 plus children not socially distanced, with poor ventilation and all the children facing the teacher - do we really not see why this is a concern? Please name another workplace where staff are being asked to do their job without proper measures? I also agree that to say it isn't transmitted in schools is absolute nonsense. We had it in my school - confirmed by positive antibody tests- and staff and children were dropping like flies back in March. (We also had children lose grandparents and family members too) so I'll take what I experienced with my own eyes over this lying government. My borough was the worst affected in the country. I was faced with a sea of children who were coughing and we were sending home so many with high temperatures. For the record I'm happy to go back and take my chances as I'm not vulnerable (plus I've definitely already been exposed) but I wouldn't dare to disparage those who are scared because posters who keep comparing what is being asked of schools to others working with proper measures are completely missing the point. Other countries have put proper measures in place in schools - we are the only country where it's pretty much normality about from "bubbles" which are a nonsense designed to make people think there is something in place. When you consider every bubble is burst by siblings alone never mind the fact teachers can move between them etc it's a farce. I'm desperate to go back to school properly (I've been in throughout- including holidays with no PPA or lunch breaks etc before I get smart comments about that and my full hours since May) but this could de disastrous without test and trace properly in place and parents being made to follow the rules regards not sending them in sick. Given my friend had a child send a child in to her school who had tested positive and the school only found out when PHE called them, forgive me for not holding out hope that parents won't do what they always have done and dose them up and send them in. It was happening just before lockdown. Unfortunately some parents will be irresponsible and selfish about this. I too am worried about the shit show of isolation and the bubbles being constantly disrupted as all the teachers who usually drag themselves in half dead (because there is no money for supply teachers anymore) won't be able to, not to mention the implications of my own children having to stay off as well. All we are asking for is proper measures and some organisation by the government who have so far when it comes to schools been worse than useless.

I think it's sensible to take any figures without citation with a pinch of salt.

It is a ridiculous idea that as you enter school the magic of the place means you are at lower risk of catching it. So I stop for petrol, lunch etc and put mask on for the 5 mins but enter school for 7 hours and suddenly don't need a mask?

middleager

You can't look it up because testing was not happening pre lockdown. However it is very likely that a large secondary school had 100+ cases, particularly in hotspot areas at that time. In March, any cough/ cold type symptoms were probably COVID, but we can't say for definite as there wasn't much community testing.

But yes, OP shouldn't be saying "look it up".

I’m afraid I haven’t read much of the thread. I think we need to be measured here. There is a risk in schools, however how much is lower than many other indoor activities. Schools do need to take precautions. I for one am all in favour of social distancing and ventilation, for teenagers wearing masks even if this is in corridors etc.

So I don’t think we should ignore the risk. However I do think the ‘teachers dying in droves’ is not factually correct. Many countries have had their schools open such as South Korea and Denmark - they have had to take precautions but they are open. There is a risk in having children not go back to school for the whole of next year too.

People should make their own choices but this is not a conspiracy by the government. I personally think they should be doing more to make schools safer - but I do think it is the right decision to open schools.

The problem is other teachers not kids. That is why teacher are socially distancing from other teachers when they go back.

There is indication anywhere else that what the op says is true.

I’d keep it in mind before reacting to the story in the op.

@LizzieBlackwell

Levitate? Don't get you?

Whiny teacher posts 🤣 what do you do? I'm guessing you're happy and safe in your workplace. Good for you!

NO indication that it is true

e won’t be enough teachers to teach your children. Then what will happen? Closure? Half days? That would be so unbelievably stressful for working parents.

Erm, lockdown has been very stressful due working parents, who other than a few state and more private schools that offered full days of online sessions, have had to teach their kids and work.

I think teachers should have PPE and screens by the way. But the educational experience delivered to kids during lockdown was very poor - remember the unions argued vociferously against live teaching on safeguarding grounds.

On balance, unless schools are going to massively step up to deliver proper online teaching, the kids need to go back.

i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120895239/coronavirus-everything-we-know-about-new-zealands-marist-college-covid19-cluster

I hope the above link works. Just wanted to put in some hard evidence that Covid is spread through schools. I’m in NZ, and we were able to trace the virus as it spread very accurately. This poor school in NZ was at the centre of a very significant cluster. It clearly does spread rapidly and dangerously in schools. As a teacher I am very glad I no longer teach in the UK and will not have to go back into school this September.

@MarshaBradyo

I'm assuming she means currently, as in through her contact with pupils during lockdown.

No what she has described was the situation in class. Perhaps not clearly enough on this thread but this is the second time I’ve heard this story. With many grieving students, choking students (why were they in school so I’ll?), deafness, it sounds far worse than any situation by a long chalk. It’s made up a shame people are just accepting the anxiety inducing scaremongering though.

@MarshaBradyo I think we have seen the same post or similar from this OP. I think she also talked about a 17 year old not being transferred to hospital but managed at home on oxygen with suspected Covid. I’m happy to be corrected if wrong and that she wasn’t that poster but it hugely concerns me the amount of false information being spread. Either she is making that up or the doctor that allowed that should be reported for negligence. No doctor I know would allow a person with a new oxygen requirement to remain at home with oxygen, pandemic or no pandemic. Discharging someone from hospital home on oxygen is completely different and I do know of 3 patients discharged home after Covid on oxygen but not the situation that poster described. I am concerned about lack of PPE, I think teachers should be able to wear masks/visors, the same for students but can we stop spreading fear when it muddies this argument.

Name changed because I have an evil SLT who think everything will be fine and our quite awful children who are currently destroying shop fronts in the local town will be well behaved.

At the very beginning of March my school (large high school) had a trip to Disneyland Paris, and we were surprised it went ahead. 6 staff, 28 students. They returned to the UK at the weekend, and by the following Friday 2 staff and 7 students were off with 'respiratory infections'. Within the next 7 days, more students who weren't on the trip (but sat on the same table in my form with students who did go, in 2 cases) were ill, and 2 more staff (within the same department of 2 of the original trip staff).

All of this is presume COVID, coming from the parents of the students and staff, but because of the complete lack of testing we don't know, apart from one original trip staff who has tested positive for antibodies becuase they are still ill and are not sure about returning in September.

The reason for their being limited data and pretty much only anecdotal stories are because it was nearly impossible to be tested; you had to be severely ill or had travelled from Italy or China.

For the hard of thinking; infections (even something like scabies.... that was a long few months) spread very easily in schools. COVID is no different, even IF children aren't as badly affected by the virus.

Anyway, when I got back I have loads of Year 11 and 6th form, all in tiny rooms. Students that have the same number of ACE 2 receptors as adults (one of the suggested reasons that children are more mildy affected) so it is no different to sharing a small room with 20 (A Level) and 30 (GCSE) adults. With no distancing. No ventilation (safety locks only allowing a 20cm opening). No screens or protection for anyone. And toilets in a different building around a 4 minute walk away.

I want to go back to work, I hate teaching online, I want it to be normal, but nothing in life is normal at the moment; I haven't even been inside my parent's house since the end of February and now because of being in the Gtr Man region I can't go to their garden, but I can go play happy schools with 150 students a day. How can people not see that what is being said about schools is not right?

Blended learning in high school is the only sensible way to ensure continuous schooling. Full time openning cannot be maintained; just watch Georgia over the next few weeks.

If OP's hyperbole is actually true, then surely many teachers have already had it and have some immunity? In that case they can get back in the classroom and do their bloody job.

@Aesopfable why are children not a problem?

Obviously in a large secondary school there will be many adults too who will all need to social distance which is in the guidance, but why not the pupils?

And even if there isn’t a huge health risk (and that is a big if) if there is no SD the virus will be spread in the school, back home and then into the wider community.

This is an up to date research piece

Despite the educational settings being open during the first wave and infectious individuals being in the schools in question "SARS-CoV-2 transmission rates were low in NSW educational settings during the first COVID-19 epidemic wave, consistent with mild infrequent disease in the 1·8 million child population. With effective case-contact testing and epidemic management strategies and associated small numbers of attendances while infected, children and teachers did not contribute significantly to COVID-19 transmission via attendance in educational settings."

The study shows that even when infectious individuals actually attended schools the transmission rate was low.

Bluebell yep these words were used about the classroom situation

terrifying experiences and trauma

This did not happen in her school before lockdown. Children were not coming in so ill and choking, parents and gps were not dying in numbers to leave students grieving in class.

If OP's hyperbole is actually true, then surely many teachers have already had it and have some immunity? In that case they can get back in the classroom and do their bloody job

Would love to! With the same basic safety precautions afforded to those in other professions and occupations! 😊

This research was looking at various studies to see what the role of children is in transmission. This was published in June and discusses 16 different studies

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32612817/

Not making any assumptions but for individuals who would prefer to real research rather than the OP's mass exaggerations

@MarshaBradyo

I think you’ve got a bit confused. The op doesn’t mention any deaths at her school, so I’m not sure where you’ve got the ideas that op’s school has hundreds of deaths. She actually says they were lucky to have no deaths on their schools.

No you are misunderstanding.

The op mentions grieving students, many of them in fact. When the day before lockdown 77 were recorded across the country,

Why are so many of those parents or GPs of her students?

Aah I see. Cases in the community rather than cases at school. I’m misreading you rather than you misreading the op I still can’t see that she’s mentioning hundreds, but I do get your point about the death rate at the time.