I can’t believe this is how people think

[Tigerlily31]

My MIL told me she’d rather die of “anything else over Covid”

My own mother is convinced she’ll end up in ICU on a ventilator if she gets it, despite having no health concerns.

I fully blame the media. It’s becoming frightening how big it is in people’s minds.

@Wagsandclaws

It's been in the mainstream media that Covid is being put on people's death certificates regardless of what they die of. I personally know of someone who had Covid, was discharged and died in an rta a few weeks later but their cause of death was put down as Covid.

Here’s some actual information about Covid and death certificates from the Office of National Statistics. The key point is: In the majority of cases (46,736 deaths, 92.8%) where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate, it was found to be the underlying cause of death.

“Between 1 March and 30 June 2020, there were 218,837 deaths that occurred in England and Wales and that were registered by 4 July 2020. Over a fifth of these deaths (23.0%) involved the coronavirus (COVID-19) (50,335 deaths). The doctor certifying a death can list all causes in the chain of events that led to the death and pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to the death. Using this information, we determine an underlying cause of death. More information on this process can be found in our user guide. In the majority of cases (46,736 deaths, 92.8%) where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate, it was found to be the underlying cause of death.

Our definition of COVID-19 includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain, for example, because no test was done. Of the 46,736 deaths with an underlying cause of COVID-19, 3,763 (8.1%) were classified as “suspected” COVID-19. Including mentions, “suspected” COVID-19 was recorded on 8.4% (4,251 deaths) of all deaths involving COVID-19.”

I know 4 people who have had covid - confirmed test. Yes it is a serious illness and it can last for over 2 weeks.
The thing to note here is: one works in care and subsequently infected partner and their sister - they were all in the same household.
The 4th person, is young, for and healthy ... but very reliant on public transport. He thinks that is where he got it as otherwise not in very close contact with people.
You can say that it's scaremongering by the media, and there is some truth in it. But this virus spreads easily through close contact with other people who are infected.

I personally know of someone who had Covid, was discharged and died in an rta a few weeks later but their cause of death was put down as Covid.

I also know of someone this happened to. They would have been considered to have recovered from Covid and then sadly died in a car accident.

@Dogsgowoofwoof

I personally know of someone who had Covid, was discharged and died in an rta a few weeks later but their cause of death was put down as Covid.

I also know of someone this happened to. They would have been considered to have recovered from Covid and then sadly died in a car accident.

As I understand the situation, this person's death certificate would only reference their injuries from the RTA, and the ONS would therefore not count them as a Covid victim. But Public Health England carries out a regular exercise to identify deaths of people who have tested positive for Covid and later died; these figures then feed into the daily PHE totals.

Same shrill posters on thread after thread making big statements about how we've been led by the media, lied to, destroyed society and the economy for a pack of lies, other viruses cause long term damage too you know...

Such a shame that the worlds leading scientists, virologists and government advisors who are all in broad agreement and taking much the same actions don't know as much as mumsnet! If only they'd listened to you folk...

@mathanxiety

If we all lived by what we actually see and experience going on around us rather than what the media tells us is the truth the world would be a better place.

You too, @Uhoh2020

Congratulations on your blissful little bubble.

The media are not the enemy here.

The media aren't exactly covering themselves with glory with their hysterical fear monger no reporting though. A few day ago they reported 74 deaths from Covid. They failed to mention it was reported deaths and backdated. How is that responsible reporting?

As I understand the situation, this person's death certificate would only reference their injuries from the RTA, and the ONS would therefore not count them as a Covid victim. But Public Health England carries out a regular exercise to identify deaths of people who have tested positive for Covid and later died; these figures then feed into the daily PHE totals.

PHE isn't fit for purpose.

Here’s some actual information about Covid and death certificates from the Office of National Statistics. The key point is: In the majority of cases (46,736 deaths, 92.8%) where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate, it was found to be the underlying cause of death.

This is merely the wisdom of people, not necessarily even doctors, much less someone who had clinical interaction with the decedent in the weeks prior to his death, categorising the cause of death.

As you'll know, they need not have been tested for covid19 to have the same certified as their cause of death.

Given that ONS is a receiver of information, their output is only as good as the input.

@Wecandothis99

My auntie has been coughing up blood for 2 months now and said if there Is no cure then she wants to be put down! It's one of the worst things I've seen so that's where people get it from. It's very unlikely to catch it that badly but if you do it's really horrific

I had a chronic cough after my second cancer treatment. For about two years I would cough until I threw up. I wanted to die. I wouldn't have wished it on anyone. Not being able to breathe over an extended period of time is soul destroying. I had told myself that if it was long term then I would end it. Fortunately I found a treatment that made life livable, and then a cure.

@feesh

They said on the news tonight that all deaths are counted in England as Covid deaths if the deceased has EVER tested positive for Covid, whereas in Scotland and Wales deaths are only counted as Covid if the person has tested postive in the last month. So the RTA story is potentially true.

In the covid death stats it might well be counted as covid as they are apparently purely looking at whether people who ever tested covid are still alive or not. If they aren't alive they go down as a covid death, the actual cause of death isn't checked. However I doubt that covid would get put on the death certificate of someone who died in an RTA.

Fortunately most people who have Covid do recover, but for those who don’t it’s a very unpleasant illness to die from, as is any condition that leaves people fighting for breath. Added to which Covid patients are denied many of the things associated with a “good death” such as being surrounded by the people they love in a place of their choosing.

I’m not denying the media hyperbole and am irritated daily by ridiculous stories, but In saying she’d rather die from anything else but, the OP’s MIL is making a perfectly reasonable point.

Totally agree.

MIL and FIL are terrified. If they go to the supermarket they WILL get it, if they get it, they WILL die. No debate. Yes they are both over 75, and FIL has a few health issues, but the balance is still very much in their favour. MIL hasn't left the house/garden since 29th February. FIL has been to a couple of GP appointments and to pick something up at Argos. They are quarantining their post, wiping down all shopping with dettol wipes, going nowhere, seeing nobody.

It's no way to live.

I think I’d rather covid than Ebola.

Well quite. I'd add cholera to that list. Personally I live in fear of catching noro.

I think people are right to be very very cautious because nobody knows if you will be ‘the one’ who gets it very badly. I work in healthcare and have been in the hospital daily all through the pandemic. I’m back to taking the train to work now. I’m being careful.

But my friend (not someone ‘I know OF’, someone I actually know) has been off work for 4 months and is signed off for many more because of covid. She has been incredibly unwell. She’s fit and healthy with no underlying conditions. Another friend is in a similar situation. So no it isn’t just ‘nothing’ and healthy fit people can be completely scuppered by it.

@Al1Langdownthecleghole

Fortunately most people who have Covid do recover, but for those who don’t it’s a very unpleasant illness to die from, as is any condition that leaves people fighting for breath. Added to which Covid patients are denied many of the things associated with a “good death” such as being surrounded by the people they love in a place of their choosing.

I’m not denying the media hyperbole and am irritated daily by ridiculous stories, but In saying she’d rather die from anything else but, the OP’s MIL is making a perfectly reasonable point.

That covid19 deaths are alone is a political decision. It has nothing to do with the disease itself.

For many, covid19 is a far kinder death (assuming proper palliative care is given, although I fear in some cases it has not been) than what would otherwise await them. Pneumonia being 'the dying man's friend' and all that.

The leading causes of death in care homes are not nice, and often they involve withdrawing a feeding tube because of dementia.

Well we are on holiday right now. Dh was shielding due to being immunosuppressed. I would probably feature on the the high risk over 50 group if it happens.
I particularly agonized over going as I have seen the crowded beaches and we tend to eat out lots too.
So far we have been to two restaurants. The table we were seated at one restaurant was probably half a metre away from the table behind if that . The self serve drink dispenser directly behind us was rightly out of use but it didn't stop people approaching it. None of the restaurant staff wore masks.
The other one was better but still no masks.
We have been to a beach which was carefully chosen as quieter but still has someone brush past dh. Now I know this is low risk but indicates to me me that many people don't take the virus seriously enough as not goving someone struggling to walk space is a big no no.
Thoughout shielding DH has wfh and we have a young dd and two teenagers.
DH has not said he is afraid of dying of COVID but it is of course a worry but we do have to get on with life and we have not cowered away at home as a family but me and dc have taken precautions and initially were sd in the home too.

Is it not possible to say “I take notice of coronavirus as a risk amongst many other risks” without people interpreting that as “I don’t think coronavirus is a risk at all”?

No it's not, @DeepTreacle. The only acceptable position to many on this forum is to be utterly terrified and cowering in your house.

A family member of mine has not seen anyone since lockdown started and I honestly fear they won’t see anyone until there’s a vaccine. Them and their partner are healthy and in their 30s, it’s absolutely ridiculous and heartbreaking that they’re literally not going out or seeing anyone when the risk to them is minuscule.

Nobodyputsdaisyinthecorner - Any concern I have is mostly due to lack of trust in our government to do the right thing.

The Governments appalling track record with the crisis and last minute u-turns certainly aren’t helping instil public confidence. Two weeks ago we had upbeat Johnson telling us we could be back to normal by November the following week he and Hancock were saying we are potentially entering a second wave. So the media are not solely to blame for people’s increased fears and anxiety over the situation.

As I said earlier I think it’s understandable that older people fear dying of Covid19 more than other illnesses due to the unpleasant prospect of dying alone.

@Wagsandclaws

It's been in the mainstream media that Covid is being put on people's death certificates regardless of what they die of. I personally know of someone who had Covid, was discharged and died in an rta a few weeks later but their cause of death was put down as Covid.

The media has a lot to answer for, as for this shitshow of a government ...

Who writes the death certificate? Why on earth would they put COVID? I am totally exasperated with conspiracy theorists. What benefit would it be to do this fabrication? Are they all bribed by the government or just since the pandemic become wildly incompetent at their jobs?

[quote TheMurk]@ReefTeeth but this is just what the media is telling you.[/quote]
No it's not! There are scientific papers out there regarding it currently going through peer review.

It's one thing to be paralysed with fear over COVID but it is equally stupid to think it is nothing to be concerned about. There is a necessary middle ground

The leading causes of death in care homes are not nice, and often they involve withdrawing a feeding tube because of dementia.

Majority of deaths in care homes are comfortable with palliative care. Worked in this healthcare 20 years and never come across a patient with dementia and a feeding tube. Have stopped a feeding tube in a patient who was dying, not to kill them, but because he was dying.

I am far from in the hoax camp at all I just don't believe the media helps .
We see no positive stories about covid, how many people have survived, how many have carried on with a normal life afterwards without complications, how many care homes have manged to keep their homes covid free, how many workplaces have returned and adapted covid free? Its not headline worthy no one wants to hear it.
We constantly fed daily death rates, which in the headlines never put them in perspective with death rates of other illnesses. Headlines about outbreaks, an outbreak could mean 2 people it could mean 200 people, we just see "outbreaks" and panic.
OP MIL feels a covid death is worse than any other, I can't imagine any death is pleasant tbh. PP SIL age 30 slim mild asthma thinks she's going to walk into work catch it and die. If the media hasn't fuelled that fear then what has?
The media should report with perspective and ALL the facts not fear headlines to sell papers.

The biggest concern for me is that people don't understand the impact of mass illness across the population. Even if only 1 out of 4 or 5 people is unwell enough to be in bed for a couple of weeks or signed off for longer that is a massive impact on the workforce, schools, health, bin collection, food supplies and logistics,police,never mind shops and hospitality.
For the people who have been shielding they have been medically assessed as at higher risk so they are right to be afraid.
Other people's personal risk levels may appear low but its society as a whole that is at risk, not just "the NHS". If COVID gets out of hand again it will lead to a very disrupted time and that's pretty scary. It's not a huge ask to follow some guidelines until we get a vaccine or treatment.