Anyone get the Sunday telegraph. I would like to know about leaked "enhanced shielding"

[2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney]

There is an article which starts on the front page and continues on page 4 . Would love it if someone could cut and paste or photo page 4 continue of the article on here.
I can't access without actually paying up and having to watch the pennies.

This is why the newspapers are dying!

From the Guardian's blog it looks as if govt departments are being asked to scenario model different levels of lockdown and what the impacts will be. One of the scenarios is to reintroduce shielding for over 70's and give "personal assessments" for vulnerable people between age of 50 -70.

Presumably to avoid a more general lockdown for the entire population.

You can see the front page on BBC here Newspaper headlines: 'Tory MP arrested' and PM urged to stop 'chaos' www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-53625588

Sounds like they've realised it's unethical to stop people shielding when cases are on the rise but want shielding working age population back at work regardless.
So they've just come up with a new name that justifies that.

And create. 2 tier society? Where we lock away those awkward people?

Because that would then have to be until,vaccine or rebellion?

Why not Make them pay extra for the required services like food delivery to claw back the cash they won't be spending at large?

Force their partners out of work, to free up jobs for others , because otherwise the lack of physical contact for possibly years would be utterly dehumanising for the pesky vulnerable , and the in house transmission risk would probably be too high?

Perhaps they could all kill themselves with the resultant depression at the exclusion from society, that would reduce the costs for pensions and the NHS

I can see why the idea appeals to sociopaths

My mum is 80 without underlying conditions (except being old) and she will not stay at home. I know some people will say "so selfish, taking a ventilator away from someone younger etc" but I take the view that she may not have many years left and wants to get out and enjoy them to some extent. If she did catch it and die she'd prefer that to being cooped up for goodness knows how long.

She also didn't think it very sensible for all elderly people to be using the supermarkets at the same time and refused to use the "granny hour" as she called it. Not that she really went to supermarkets much anyway in the early weeks, she found smaller and very empty shops to use.

I am shielding , my husband and daughter are currently following shielding with me to keep me safe. However my daughter has been asked to return to work next week.
Wanted to know how this will effect us.
Thank you @canyon2000 for posting the whole article for me.

The Government is also thought to be considering implementing a national ban on people from different households meeting indoors

This sounds quite draconian. Could be good news for the makers of winter coats - if we have to meet outside we'll need warm and waterproof clothes

My only experience of shopping in vulnerable hour was the first weekend of lockdown before I was shielding. It was a nightmare. Tesco's told me that it wasn't enforceable, so they couldn't prevent all the non vulnerable coming in. I shopped as quickly as possible but it was only after my complaints to a manager they set up some tills for us at one end . The other tills were crowded that is how I know most shopping weren't Vulnerable.
If it wasn't enforceable then not shpure how it could be made enforceable now without issuing some kind of ID, but even then like blue badges , I would expect abuse.

 Coronavirus: Millions of over-50s could be told to stay at home to avoid second nationwide lockdown news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-millions-of-over-50s-could-be-told-to-stay-at-home-to-avoid-second-nationwide-lockdown-12040780

Hopefully this loads. From sky.

"One of the scenarios is to reintroduce shielding for over 70's"

The over 70s have never been asked to shield so far, so it cannot be 'reintroduced' for them.

The existing, newly deshielded, exceptionally medically vulnerable group (no age categories in deciding who is in this group) have been told all along that we might be recalled to shielding (locally or nationally) should case numbers rise.

Adding age groups, whether over 50 or over 70 would both be new.

And I suspect tot wouid not be shielding, rather it would be isolation (still permitted essential shopping and daily exercise - like lockdown) not the 'don't even go out as far as to put your bins out' level of restriction advised for those who shielded.

I work in a busy catering kitchen. All employees there are over 50. So if this happens the kitchen will have to close.

@midgebabe

And create. 2 tier society? Where we lock away those awkward people?

Because that would then have to be until,vaccine or rebellion?

Why not Make them pay extra for the required services like food delivery to claw back the cash they won't be spending at large?

Force their partners out of work, to free up jobs for others , because otherwise the lack of physical contact for possibly years would be utterly dehumanising for the pesky vulnerable , and the in house transmission risk would probably be too high?

Perhaps they could all kill themselves with the resultant depression at the exclusion from society, that would reduce the costs for pensions and the NHS

I can see why the idea appeals to sociopaths

But those people are mainly old people. MN was full of agonised posts around the time lockdown started about parents who “won’t do as they’re told”. They’re not big spenders as a group, neither are they economically active.

I’m in my 60s and retired, we’re not doing much different now to during lockdown and quite happy to continue living like this. There’s no pleasure in going to shops or restaurants with the current restrictions, why would we want to go and spend money on things we don’t enjoy?

And now the posts are about teens not doing what they're told, and engaging in transmission risky large gatherings

If social media stereotyped hate-of-the-week is driving government policy then we are truly stuffed.

This isn't 'enhanced shielding'

It's brand new banging up of the vulnerable list - look at the conditions mentioned . They're not 'shield' - they're the long list vulnerable.

That included the pregnant and the seriously obese, as well as age categories.

Plus everyone with diabetes, or a non-severe lung condition that's not severe (such as asthma, COPD, emphysema or bronchitis). Or have heart disease, chronic kidney disease or some liver diseases. Or have a condition affecting the brain or nerves (such as Parkinson's disease, motor neurone disease, multiple sclerosis or cerebral palsy).

Or have a condition that means they have a high risk of getting infections or are taking medicine that can affect the immune system (such as low doses of steroids)

Are you an Eloi or a Morlock?

I think two tier society is a dreadful idea.

I suppose it has to be considered, but I really hope that current plans for transmission control do not fail, and there will never be a need to move to something as grotesque as this

digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/308/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/308/pub/308/page/2/article/67966

Yer ‘tis.

Elderly people and others considered to have an increased risk from Covid-19 could be asked to stay at home

Isn't that a big part of the Swedish style strategy?

We are in our 60s and healthier than a lot of younger people.
Dh works, I don't.
I am enjoying returning to the gym, restaurants and galleries.
Looking forward to seeing how they plan to enforce this

Vinyl detective,

You need to work out how the group affected as a whole behaves and not assume because you and your friends don't do much that that is true of the group as a whole

My sister is also a stay at home baby, my elderly mother on the other hand likes to get out and about and do stuff. Look at the age profile in many festivals. We are often feeling young!

On average taking out the vulnerables could knock a huge amount off the economy

"Plus everyone with diabetes"

Yeah. I never even got a letter!

Well said @midgebabe - I've screenshot your words (not your name) to use elsewhere if that's ok? Too many people slipping into ubermensch/eugenic thinking.

And completely ignoring how many working people - including NHS workers - have conditions that put them on the shielding list. Especially now we know how much more dangerous it is for pregnant women and cancer patients.

@AuntieMarys

We are in our 60s and healthier than a lot of younger people. Dh works, I don't. I am enjoying returning to the gym, restaurants and galleries. Looking forward to seeing how they plan to enforce this

It’s unenforceable, unless the places you want to go ban you which is a distinct possibility - exclusion on the basis of age isn’t exactly new. All our contemporaries feel as we do so it will make zero difference to us, we’ll live in the twilight zone until there’s a semblance of normality in the world.

@AuntieMarys

We are in our 60s and healthier than a lot of younger people. Dh works, I don't. I am enjoying returning to the gym, restaurants and galleries. Looking forward to seeing how they plan to enforce this

Same here, maybe we will see a lot of 'Think 45' stickers in all the shops, restaurants etc.

Yeah. I never even got a letter

You wouldn't have got a letter so far for diabetes.

Because it was not a shielded condition. It was classed as medically vulnerable (not shield/exceptionally vulnerable/got the letter)

What this article appears to be talking about is extending isolation restrictions to the medically vulnerable (age, pregnancy, obesity and long-list medical conditions, and some were arguing for BAME inclusion).