For the people who think they've been duped...

[mac12]

I'm not trying to start a bunfight but I'm just curious about this thought process. People who think they've been duped by coronavirus & think lockdowns were a hysterical over-reaction...

• what do you think is going on when countries like China haven't rolled back from their strong stance on this? Do you think it's just to save face? I mean would a country really take a wrecking ball to their economy to save face?
• why have countries like Israel or some US states, which did reopen, decide to start closing down again? Why wouldn't they just crack on and carry on with full reopening if it was so clear that they had been duped & it had all been an overreaction?
• why wouldn't all governments be taking the Sweden line? Our govt isn't averse to the odd U-turn, why wouldn't they do this if they genuinely thought it was safe and they had overreacted?

I'm just wondering why people think governments would persist with this if it was so obviously an overreaction?

But it won’t just go away on its own. If we did reopen everything the chances are everyone will just get sick at the same time so hospitals won’t be able to cope and then more people will die from things like cancer, and schools and shops will have to close because everyone is off sick.

It is horrible not knowing what’s happening but there’s not much anyone can do about it (I can only imagine what it must be like to live through a war). I think they will slowly reopen things so everyone has a chance to catch it at different times and then those who are most vulnerable will get the vaccine first, and then the vaccine will be given like the measles vaccine and it will become part of life.

I agree with everything @thedailycarbuncle has said

I am not a conspiracy theorist. There's no conspiracy. I do however believe in the madness of crowds. And governments are just as susceptible to groupthink as anyone else.

The emotional response to a new virus has completely overridden the rational response, and there is ZERO evidence to suggest lockdowns work - just a bunch of people who can't understand cause & correlation are two different things. Not that there IS any correlation between stringency of lockdown and viral spread, once you stop cherry picking the data.

Our government, and I would suspect many others, have put pandering to the data illiterate mass response over and above the more rational one as it's popular opinion that wins elections. It doesn't help that so few of our government are scientists either, and their chief advisors are given those roles NOT because they were any good at their previous jobs but as a way of getting them OUT of their previous jobs

@Karenovirus totally agree.

@Sunrise234

But it won’t just go away on its own. If we did reopen everything the chances are everyone will just get sick at the same time so hospitals won’t be able to cope and then more people will die from things like cancer, and schools and shops will have to close because everyone is off sick.

It is horrible not knowing what’s happening but there’s not much anyone can do about it (I can only imagine what it must be like to live through a war). I think they will slowly reopen things so everyone has a chance to catch it at different times and then those who are most vulnerable will get the vaccine first, and then the vaccine will be given like the measles vaccine and it will become part of life.

Lockdown isn't making it go away either though?

I'm not suggesting no measures at all but no lockdowns would be nice considering they're not a long term measure at all.

What if we don't get a vaccine? What If it's not effective? Would you be prepared to live like this forever?

I genuinely want to know why I haven't got sick from this, if the everyone will get sick arguement holds up. I am working in an office. I have been to every shop going. Been to hospital, theme parks, zoos. I bite my nails so hand constantly by face. Have a child at nursery and the other at school before the holidays. My diet is practically beige food. Anyone care to shed any light?

Jussayingisall Maybe you did have it, maybe you had no symptoms. Did you not even think of the fact some don’t get any symptoms?

there is ZERO evidence to suggest lockdowns work

Except that we've gone from nearly 1000 deaths per say to

The link someone posted above is one mans opinion who thinks the lowering of cases is due to asymptomatic cases and prior immunity rather than the lockdown - which is interesting but he has no actual proof yet. And I’ve always been taught the most simplest explanation is usually the most accurate so numbers falling after lockdowns would point to the lockdown having a positive effect.

And no we are not trying to get rid of it (I don’t think that’s possible) we are trying to slow it down so those who are really ill with it have less chance of dying from it and we don’t have loads of people ill at the same time taking up hospital space etc.

If it was just this government I would question it but every single country in the world has taken a hit in their economy and not many would do that unless they thought it was necessary.

There are also so many conspiracy theories going round that’s it’s worrying that people believe them and not actual scientists and doctors. The most recent I’ve heard is it’s aliens in response to the launch of a space programme and it’s to do with the illuminati in Egypt trying to get rid of black people.

@Jussayingisall I don’t know if I’ve had it. I was really ill but it was just like a bad flu I didn’t need hospital treatment so I don’t know. I know loads of people got ill around me but this was before lockdown when it wasn’t heard of much over here.

@GrumpiestOldWoman I think they mean as a long term solution. Open up after lock down and you're back to square one.

“Some kind of natural break kicks in”
Yeah, people stay the fuck indoors, lockdown or no lockdown

@Jussayingisall

I genuinely want to know why I haven't got sick from this, if the everyone will get sick arguement holds up. I am working in an office. I have been to every shop going. Been to hospital, theme parks, zoos. I bite my nails so hand constantly by face. Have a child at nursery and the other at school before the holidays. My diet is practically beige food. Anyone care to shed any light?

You could have been an asymptomatic case. There's studies recently saying it's believed as many as 40% of people are asymptomatic.

It's also believed 10% of population are responsible for 80-90% of infections and it's very much a virus that transmits through super spreader events.

There's also been talks and possibly even studies stated into whether a certain percentage of the population are naturally immune like they are with HIV.

I think local restrictions is a good idea. Some of the areas that have had restrictions imposed were having mass rises in community transmission.

But I think lockdown has solved a lot of the issues we had from the seeding event that brought covid here and many areas have such low numbers of people wear masks and continue with SD and hand washing etc they may be safe from mass outbreaks if track and trace functions well - and people actually do their duty and adhere to it

[quote secretllama]@GrumpiestOldWoman I think they mean as a long term solution. Open up after lock down and you're back to square one.[/quote]
In theory at least that needn't be the case though. We were caught on the hop first time round and by the time we realised we had it it was too late. However by now we should have Test and Trace nailed and if we got levels down very low and then jumped on any local outbreaks with T&T we would be able to open up more things and still keep things under control.

Sadly I'm not convinced this government us sufficiently competent to manage the nuanced approach that is needed now.

Surely there must be thousands of people like me who are going around in relative normality and not being effected by the virus.

Yes I thought we wouldn’t be seeing a rise so quickly considering we got them low and are now better prepared with T&T.
I personally think it would have been better if everyone stayed in their local area and not travelled to different countries and counties (I know lots would disagree) but then we needed to recover the economy.

@Jussayingisall

I genuinely want to know why I haven't got sick from this, if the everyone will get sick arguement holds up. I am working in an office. I have been to every shop going. Been to hospital, theme parks, zoos. I bite my nails so hand constantly by face. Have a child at nursery and the other at school before the holidays. My diet is practically beige food. Anyone care to shed any light?

Because only 10% of the UK population have had it, give or take? That leaves 90% that haven't had it. You aren't unusual.

Jussayingisall Yes there probably is. It depends what job you have or had, how old are your DCs/parents, what race you are etc. We will all probably have different experiences of it.

Equally we've now caused early deaths of around 60k cancer patients many of whom with the right treatment wouldn't have died in the next year or so. Many of them much younger than covid victims.

Where is this figure from? Our entire excess deaths is 60,000 so how have an additional 60,000 died from cancer?

Oh I give up. Despite the bloody obvious being pointed out to you, thread after thread, you hang onto the same nonsense & trying to explain anything to you is like trying to hold the damn back with a toothpick.

I feel your pain.

With no vaccine, then to me, the only option is to curtail the freedoms of the most vulnerable, we simply cannot carry on as we are going.

Early on (March i think) i posted a thread asking why in the pandemics of 1957 and 1968, we never locked down at all, despite both Flu pandemics killing millions worldwide.

No one really answered the question then or since.

So, i guess if CV was a disease of the developing world killing 1m per year, we'd not really take much notice would we? i mean we don't seem to give a fuck about Malaria or Diarrhea, let alone war, esp if it saves a few BAE jobs.

I worry what sort of society we will have left if a vaccine isn't available for a 2 or 3 years, the decision to open pubs ahead of schools must have been taken only because the ruling classes children have access to great online tuition, so much like the NHS (they all go private) they don't give a toss for our kids, who have once again been massively affected by CV, yet its not a disease that really affects them..... they have lost jobs, travel (esp brexit) education, graduations, friendships, sport etc and for what? so they can go on the dole, work for peanuts and get ripped off by tuition fees?

If i was young, i'd stick two fingers up to the oldies!

Basically without a vaccine this is our life now. Sorry but no, totally unacceptable. I'd rather die than live like this for another 6 months, a year, two years. It's not a life it's an existence. It's mental torture not knowing what will happen next, not having any control over your own life. You can't plan anything without the huge risk of losing any money you spent on it and of course being hugely dissapointed every time something doesn't go to plan

I think you're finding it tougher than most @TrustTheGeneGenie. There will be a vaccine eventually (I hope!) And your life will hopefully get better. But I truly believe most people will come out the other side of lockdown without catastrophic damage. Yes its boring and uncertain but for most people it's not tortuous. Also I don't agree that we've had 60k excess deaths from cancer, do you have a link for that?

I think a lot of the issue with this whole scenario is the amount of false and misleading information, and how confusing some of the governments guidelines vs rules vs laws there have been. Plus the government deliberately played to anxieties because they felt they needed to in order to get us to comply (maybe they did). “Stay home, saves lives” does roughly translate to “leave the house and you’ll be killing people”; perhaps that’s true in a roundabout way but anyone rational can see there are a few steps and additional considerations between the two.

*Except that we've gone from nearly 1000 deaths per say to

@Jussayingisall

Surely there must be thousands of people like me who are going around in relative normality and not being effected by the virus.

Possibly.

Then infecting others who are actually vulnerable or passing it to other non vulnerable people who take it home to vulnerable family or pass it on to vulnerable people.

That's why SD, Hans washing and masks must be used still. Plus why when cases have reached a certain level restrictions must be placed to reverse the community transmission.

@karenovirus

tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

Have you seen this? Nicholas Cage movies v drowning in swimming pools is a particular highlight