For the people who think they've been duped...

[mac12]

I'm not trying to start a bunfight but I'm just curious about this thought process. People who think they've been duped by coronavirus & think lockdowns were a hysterical over-reaction...

• what do you think is going on when countries like China haven't rolled back from their strong stance on this? Do you think it's just to save face? I mean would a country really take a wrecking ball to their economy to save face?
• why have countries like Israel or some US states, which did reopen, decide to start closing down again? Why wouldn't they just crack on and carry on with full reopening if it was so clear that they had been duped & it had all been an overreaction?
• why wouldn't all governments be taking the Sweden line? Our govt isn't averse to the odd U-turn, why wouldn't they do this if they genuinely thought it was safe and they had overreacted?

I'm just wondering why people think governments would persist with this if it was so obviously an overreaction?

And there is a reason why no one is saying we should be like South Korea!!

Sweden isn’t more fearful of the virus
And yet their cancer diagnoses are down 32% as people steered clear of doctors & hospitals as Covid cases surged.
Sweden didn’t lockdown so had higher death rate than its neighbours but it has still been hit economically & having the same public health concerns re missed diagnoses etc
www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/e832qO/lakare-varnar-okning-av-cancerfall-efter-pandemin
It is also now testing less yet seeing cases rise, which is never a good metric. At least our rising cases are in line with rising testing (finally found something positive to say about U.K. response!!)

Money doesn't grow on trees

As I’ve said I have average knowledge on the economy so I won’t claim to know the answers.

All I do know is that the economy would have taken a hit even if we didn’t lockdown.

What I hope is that seeing as every country is in the same situation it will drive costs down and therefore be better than if only we had a big hit and the rest of the world didn’t. All our economies have been equally hit.

As wages go up so do the prices of everything else like food, goods, rent and house prices. So surely the opposite would also be true?
Someone with more expertise would be able to articulate this better than me as I know there is a word for it.

@mac12

Sweden isn’t more fearful of the virus And yet their cancer diagnoses are down 32% as people steered clear of doctors & hospitals as Covid cases surged. Sweden didn’t lockdown so had higher death rate than its neighbours but it has still been hit economically & having the same public health concerns re missed diagnoses etc www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/e832qO/lakare-varnar-okning-av-cancerfall-efter-pandemin It is also now testing less yet seeing cases rise, which is never a good metric. At least our rising cases are in line with rising testing (finally found something positive to say about U.K. response!!)

So to make your point you need to compare cancer diagnoses in Sweden vs UK and elsewhere

@askmehowiknow

And there is a reason why no one is saying we should be like South Korea!!

What is the reason?

Google is your friend mrs hobo

My point is already made - it’s a disaster everywhere & Sweden isn’t some health Shangri-La

@mac12

My point is already made - it’s a disaster everywhere & Sweden isn’t some health Shangri-La

Well it's a novel virus. A pandemic. Yes it's a disaster. No one is arguing with that!

As wages go up so do the prices of everything else like food, goods, rent and house prices. So surely the opposite would also be true?

Deflation!
Not great at all, leads to Depression but judging on the housing market, we are hopefully a long way from that, thank goodness.

Deflation!

Thank you!!!

No not great at all but if only our economy was affected then things would be much worse.
I’m trying to find some kind of silver lining.

Some of the world is worrying about people dying from COVID or COVID related deaths and some are worried about dying from famine due to the economy crashing.

Only silver lining i can find is less damage to the environment! but even that will be very short lived.

The problem with falling prices is why buy that house/holiday/sofa/car/ etc etc if next month it will be cheaper?
Benefits those with money who can buy up assets and wait for the up turn but for everyone else, its a disaster in our consumer based world economy.

@Jussayingisall

I don't feel I have been duped but still as a 40 year old healthy person I have zero to worry about. Infection rates rise cause people are stupid but the fact that this is not deadly to an overwhelming majority remains the case. People need to get back to work and off sky news and you'll see life feels much better and normal

Unless you personally know people who have been hospitalised or died of the virus, this sense of immortality will continue. I personally know a 24 year old healthy young man, who I used to teach, who had been hospitalised with Covid. He has no underlying conditions and now has lung damage. I also know a 44 year old who lost his life to Covid- he had no underlying conditions either. Neither were BAME, neither were poor and both took this virus seriously from the beginning. The 44 year old was a teacher, and my ex student has his own carpentry business. No one is immortal

The problem is that people now think of Covid as a vascular disease which affects the heart and other organs, as well as lungs. Some people have also suffered strokes due to blood clots.

Especially if you are young you don’t want issues with heart and lungs for life.

If we ignore the virus and carry on as normal, as well as increased deaths, we will also need to rapidly ramp up health spending to cope with long term Covid effects.

@larrygrylls

The problem is that people now think of Covid as a vascular disease which affects the heart and other organs, as well as lungs. Some people have also suffered strokes due to blood clots.

Especially if you are young you don’t want issues with heart and lungs for life.

If we ignore the virus and carry on as normal, as well as increased deaths, we will also need to rapidly ramp up health spending to cope with long term Covid effects.

I said I wouldn't come back, but I can't help myself.

I genuinely don't understand this kind of comment. Yes, covid has some nasty effects, but it's likely to have those effects whether you get it now or next year or in five years time. So are you expecting to be in a situation where no one ever gets covid @larrygrylls? Or are you banking on a vaccine? I'm genuinely wondering how you expect people to avoid covid indefinitely, especially if a vaccine never happens?

I'm genuinely wondering how you expect people to avoid covid indefinitely, especially if a vaccine never happens?

Theoretically we could reduce numbers to very low levels through lockdown and then use test and trace programmes to cut off local outbreaks. Most of life could go on as normal for most of us.

It remains to be seen whether the current test and trace system us up to it, and if we got levels sufficiently low before lifting restrictions - particularly around pubs.

Scotland had much lower levels of covid and their lockdown was effectively earlier in the cycle, they also seem to have more effective contact tracing - it will be interesting to see how they get on.

@GrumpiestOldWoman

I'm genuinely wondering how you expect people to avoid covid indefinitely, especially if a vaccine never happens?

Theoretically we could reduce numbers to very low levels through lockdown and then use test and trace programmes to cut off local outbreaks. Most of life could go on as normal for most of us.

It remains to be seen whether the current test and trace system us up to it, and if we got levels sufficiently low before lifting restrictions - particularly around pubs.

Scotland had much lower levels of covid and their lockdown was effectively earlier in the cycle, they also seem to have more effective contact tracing - it will be interesting to see how they get on.

But people will still get covid, just at a slower rate. So you may not get covid in September but get it in June of next year. And the effects will be the same whether you get it now or then.

I am not duped but I am fed up with the various governments prioritising adults' needs over the needs of children/ young people.

Why are pubs open and holiday clubs aren't? Why isn't a huge amount of money being thrown at schools and to improve/ build school buildings etc (now that it has become clear many many schools are extremely overcrowded, need more resources, more teachers whatever)

This may sound harsh but many of those 85+ who have died from Covid would have died in the not-too-distant future maybe in 10 years maybe in 6 months - we just don't know. And that's not to say it isn't awful for those who have lost loved ones in pretty awful circumstances but children's health and wellbeing is suffering.

But people will still get covid, just at a slower rate. So you may not get covid in September but get it in June of next year. And the effects will be the same whether you get it now or then.

No - fewer people will get covid because there will be far less circulating so instead of the whole population having it within 12 months it could take years. Not contracting covid for 3 years longer means there's more chance of a vaccination in the meantime and more chance for new treatments to be found.

@IwishIwasyoda

I am not duped but I am fed up with the various governments prioritising adults' needs over the needs of children/ young people.

Why are pubs open and holiday clubs aren't? Why isn't a huge amount of money being thrown at schools and to improve/ build school buildings etc (now that it has become clear many many schools are extremely overcrowded, need more resources, more teachers whatever)

This may sound harsh but many of those 85+ who have died from Covid would have died in the not-too-distant future maybe in 10 years maybe in 6 months - we just don't know. And that's not to say it isn't awful for those who have lost loved ones in pretty awful circumstances but children's health and wellbeing is suffering.

If the hospital is full of covid patients the day your child has appendicitis or is in a car accident and it takes 2 hours to get an ambulance then your children are, effectively, at risk from covid. Overwhelming the healthcare system is a disaster for every single one of us.

But the healthcare system has not been overwhelmed. New field hospitals were built that haven't been used. We already have some positive news about effective and cheap treatments for Covid. Yes we had to flatten the curve but we did .... this doesn't mean we shouldn't now be prioritising health screening for children, investing in schools, offering children more support, opening up activities for children

@IwishIwasyoda

But the healthcare system has not been overwhelmed. New field hospitals were built that haven't been used. We already have some positive news about effective and cheap treatments for Covid. Yes we had to flatten the curve but we did .... this doesn't mean we shouldn't now be prioritising health screening for children, investing in schools, offering children more support, opening up activities for children

Whether overwhelmed or not is a matter of opinion. Lots of NHS services put the shutters up and are only just re-opening and could take months/years to return to normal. They did that (so they say) so they could concentrate on covid.

@IwishIwasyoda

But the healthcare system has not been overwhelmed. New field hospitals were built that haven't been used. We already have some positive news about effective and cheap treatments for Covid. Yes we had to flatten the curve but we did .... this doesn't mean we shouldn't now be prioritising health screening for children, investing in schools, offering children more support, opening up activities for children

I agree that more money should be spent on children and their support, I'm disgusted by the money that was thrown at a failed tracing app or 50 million unsafe masks which would have made a huge difference to the lives of children.

Why are pubs open and holiday clubs aren't?
Where I live a lot of holiday clubs are open. Depends on your Local Authoritiy. Some are more lazy cautious than others. Lobby them!

Daily,

Yes, of course I am banking on a vaccine. There are many candidates in stage 3 trials and many more in early stage trials. There are more vaccine candidates than for any disease ever.

Most real experts are very very optimistic that we will her an effective vaccine sooner rather than later.

I genuinely don’t understand why people like you, soi disant experts, seem to be so pessimistic over a vaccine and prefer to act as if it is an impossibility.

I do wonder why people keep referring to the 'UK' Covid response as if the UK was just one country. It's four countries who have all different responses different levels of infection and death per capita.

England is the country which should be compared to the other worst performing countries in the world.