Schools should close to save our economy, jobs and for our kids future as they will have to pay back all the debt in the future out of their taxes

[947EliseChalotte]

Aibu to think schools should not open in September as we don't know the long term/ future health problems from covid kids may suffer in the long term. pubs should stay open to save jobs, economy, and people's houses the kids in the future would only have to pay back in the future for generations taxes if we close pubs and get the country in more debt. Education kids can be homeschooled. For our kids futures ( health reasons and their future economy/ countried debts they will be left to sort out / pay back .schools should stay shut in sept and keep pubs open.

but being a parent doesn't mean them being in work is more important and therefore the objective should be minimising the numbers taken out of work

Totally disagree with this. People with dependents being out of work is more problematic than those without dependents. Schools being closed will result in a disproportionate increase in child poverty and homelessness, which is unacceptable to hold another sector up and will cost a fuck tonne to fix.

And that’s before you get into the huge problems of failing to educate children. Something that no parents or consultative bodies will be prepared to put up with.

So you're saying working parents (mainly women) should sacrifice their jobs and livelihood to keep the hospitality industry afloat?
The government won’t look at it that way. They’ll compare X number of parents who can’t work if schools are closed vs X number of people who will lose jobs in hospitality and related industries. And the latter will be a bigger number.

And an entire generation should miss out on a proper education?
Depends what you call a “proper education”. Missing one year out of seven at primary school isn’t going to ruin someone’s entire life. Most people who are now in their 60s left school at 14 and the sky didn’t fall in.

@Thefab3

Have you tried working from home and education your children at the same time *@SueEllenMishke*? What ages are your children btw?

Yes. Pretty much impossible. DS is 5. Both me and DH have worked full time throughout the whole of lockdown and continue to do so in very busy jobs which have just been made a whole lot busier. All with zero childcare.

that most parents will be able to continue to work if they so chose, even if that has to be during different hours to what they have historically done so.

That’s simply not the case. I’m due back in the office already for example.

@LegoMaus

So you're saying working parents (mainly women) should sacrifice their jobs and livelihood to keep the hospitality industry afloat? The government won’t look at it that way. They’ll compare X number of parents who can’t work if schools are closed vs X number of people who will lose jobs in hospitality and related industries. And the latter will be a bigger number.

And an entire generation should miss out on a proper education?
Depends what you call a “proper education”. Missing one year out of seven at primary school isn’t going to ruin someone’s entire life. Most people who are now in their 60s left school at 14 and the sky didn’t fall in.

Early primary years are vital in addressing inequalities. A year can make a huge amount of difference to a lot of children. There was a reason the younger age group were on the list to return to school in June. It wasn't for childcare reasons.

@StatisticalSense even if there was a trade off I.e. schools versus pubs closing then I don’t think you can categorically say that the alternative to my argument put forward would be greater job losses?

There are so many variables to consider:

• the amount of tax revenue paid by working parents versus that brought in by the hospitality industry? From my experience working in the hospitality industry for a few years many of us were part time and didn’t actually pay any tax, whereas where I work now if those with children had to give up work to homeschool the government would be missing out on quite a lot of tax revenue
• I feel you’d need to do a full analysis considering a range of different scenarios to draw any conclusions but there are so many behavioural principles to consider it is impossible to say
• you also don’t know how working parents would react and what decisions they would make e.g. Will both parents go part time? Would just one parent give up work? If one parent did give up work this could create resentment in a relationship and if it is women who mostly give up work this will create a massive gender imbalance in the workforce
• having children at home all the time could put strain on relationships e.g. arguments about how best to homeschool - could lead to mental health illnesses resulting in a strain on resources and time off work ill
• some working parents may already be in the hospitality industry so you’d need to consider any interdependence
• if schools are closed will those with children choose to go to the pub less often as they have to spent more timing looking after and homeschooling children?

I just don’t think you can say that my original point put forward is a false argument? It simply describes what could happen economically if schools did close and the impact on working parents. The opposite of this would just mean the hospitality industry suffers less but you can’t ultimately say that it would result in more tax revenue than closing schools.

There’s also long term economic issues to consider such a children with a lower than standard of education than the generation before them and how this will impact the skills they have in the future. If they have poorer education and then are unable to obtain the qualifications to work in higher paid jobs then you’d get less tax revenue in the longer term. It could also result in there being more competition for lower paid jobs and then higher unemployment in the long term.

Yes there’d still be those higher paid jobs to fill but they can only be filled by those qualified. I work in a very niche skilled industry and we are always struggling to recruit people qualified enough to do the job.

@xolotltezcatlopoca

Well yeah, then maybe suggest part time pub and part time school, win win, isn't it?

You haven't answered any questions by pps. How do people cope with part time school, when they work full time?

FYI, I haven't read your post completely different to how you meant.

Problem solved people, we just have half the pub open for drinking and the other half can be for primary school pupils to be taught, then all the primary schools can be used by secondary schools to increase social distancing and we can get more kids in schools. Win, win.

*educating 😬

Not sure about this pitting groups of people against each other thing. Why on earth does it have to be parents out of work and generation of kids uneducated, or hospitality staff redundant. Theres a balancing act to be done sure, but attacking each other over this is not really going to help at all.

I have so far only read on here and facebook that the schools opening would mean everything else has to close too. I cannot see the government spending fortunes to help save hospitality then just..shutting it all again tbh.

I do think a choice might have to be made at some stage though about..saving lives or saving the economy though. Another lockdown would massively fuck us. But numbers will be going up, given how much has been relaxed. Hopefully it doesn't get to that stage though.

[quote StatisticalSense]@SueEllenMishke
You could equally say that you think those in the hospitality and supporting industries should sacrifice their jobs so parents can go back to work. Neither option is particularly appealing but being a parent doesn't mean them being in work is more important and therefore the objective should be minimising the numbers taken out of work (whether this is because they are no longer able to work or because their job no longer exists and hasn't been replaced with another one). It is also untrue to suggest that no education can happen if schools aren't fully opened, as it should be more than possible to teach almost an entire timetable on line for all but the youngest children, and several countries that are equally successful on the education front do not start formal education until a later age suggesting the long term impact on the youngest children can be minimal if the right steps are taken in future years.[/quote]
Ha ha online teaching. Yeah it's really not that simple.
Young children still need supervising and that requires a parent. Not all parents are capable of supporting this so we'll see a further widening of inequality.

Plus online teaching requires a lot of resources and time to develop if you want to do it properly. Who is going to do that? I'm currently converting a university course to be delivered online - it's a massive job and I'm relying on the fact my students are adults and need minimal supervision.

All I can get from that OP is schools shut - pubs stay open. Living the dream OP! Living the dream! 😁

Sorry I meant to ask @StatisticalSense about what ages their kids are?

From my experience working in the hospitality industry for a few years many of us were part time and didn’t actually pay any tax
But the businesses who employ them pay a fortune in tax and business rates.

If they have poorer education and then are unable to obtain the qualifications to work in higher paid jobs then you’d get less tax revenue in the longer term
The government will just juggle the tax thresholds so their tax revenue remains the same. You could argue that we already don’t have enough graduate jobs for all the graduates, so it doesn’t matter if there are fewer graduates.

@StatisticalSense most people on here don’t agree with your argument. So I suggest you re read the thread again. Like I said why were hubs created for key workers only? Because they were viewed as essential and priority at that particular time. Why didn’t Borris keep the pubs open??? To save jobs like your saying.
A lot of people cannot continue to WFM with multiple children and do their jobs effectively. So companies won’t even allow it. I disagree with what your saying. I’m not sure how you can even compare what a pub offers compared to a child’s education.

The audacity and then to tell me that schools were open clearly you didn’t send your child to a HUB as you don’t seem to know how it worked!! At the start of lock down.

Nurseries were also closed are you expecting parents to look after babies and WFM too??

@Thefab3

Sorry I meant to ask *@StatisticalSense* about what ages their kids are?

Hahahaha I think she must be having a wind up. She doesn’t even know how it works when the schools shut down for the working parents but she’s here giving her advice

Based on your grammar, punctuation and sentence structure, I’m not sure you should be homeschooling anyone 🙈.

@Thefab3

Sorry I meant to ask *@StatisticalSense* about what ages their kids are?

No worries.

It's been hard though and will be virtually impossible come September and I'm expected to actually go into work and deliver lectures on campus ( I'm an academic).
Not sure they'll appreciate a 5 year old joining in in the same way they have over zoom!

Not sure pubs are really needed op. Who is more effected - pub goers or everyone in the country under 18 and all their parents who can't go to work.

*worse affected.

Or who counts more I suppose.

Hands up on my bad grammar etc, trying to multitask here ( in the pub with the kids doing the present perfect and past simple)

I everyone I'm back.Thank you so much for all your replies. Just a thought while I've been people some people are concerned about kids education not having any...don't worry years ago lots of children would of had disrupted school education in the war but they still went on to be doctors, consultants,bsurgeons , nurses ,etc. Anyway time for me to leave this thread. Goodbye lovelies ❤️

OP, are you being sponsored to use the word 'freedom'? How much do you get?

"as it should be more than possible to teach almost an entire timetable on line for all but the youngest children"

Ds is 14. It would be impossible to teach him anything online.

I wish I was sponsored for words ..I wouldn't be so poor my lovely. Im really off this thread now . Goodbye Honeys ❤️ 💐💐❤️

This is so unbelievably stupid I dont even know where to start.....