Schools should close to save our economy, jobs and for our kids future as they will have to pay back all the debt in the future out of their taxes

[947EliseChalotte]

Aibu to think schools should not open in September as we don't know the long term/ future health problems from covid kids may suffer in the long term. pubs should stay open to save jobs, economy, and people's houses the kids in the future would only have to pay back in the future for generations taxes if we close pubs and get the country in more debt. Education kids can be homeschooled. For our kids futures ( health reasons and their future economy/ countried debts they will be left to sort out / pay back .schools should stay shut in sept and keep pubs open.

Not educating kids is going to cause universities and nuseries/pre-schools to go bankrupt. Don't they count as part of the economy?
My dd is doing her A-levels next summer. I think you need her to get her qualifications so that if she treats you in future she knows what to do.

Anybody else surprised that pubs and schools have a similar effect on R?

OP- nearly half a million people work in pubs. There are nearly 9 million children in nursery or school. We are supposedly all in this together so the needs of the many (the children and their families ) should be prioritised at long last now that we know more about the virus. I am sorry for the breweries and pubs that will shut again but education is more important than pubs.

@LegoMaus

How do you propose all the parents who work homeschool their children? Some will find alternative childcare, wfh or adjust their hours. Some may have to give up work.

And the effect of all of those people having to leave the workforce?
Less people than would have to leave the workforce due to the closure of the hospitality sector.

It will be mainly women who have to give up work. Not opening schools and childcare or allowing family to do childcare will be catastrophic for women and their position in the labour market.

Presume you don't work or don't actually have children OP. Ffs.

Yes if schools do not reopen some people may have to give up work or reduce their hours, but the reality if the hospitality industry (which includes much more than pubs) is closed the numbers of job losses will dwarf the numbers of parents unable to work without schools being open.
Considering this as well as the immense social benefits that being able to get out of the house will bring to those who are stuck living in less than ideal conditions, the overall impact of closing the hospitality industry is likely to be much greater than keeping schooling online for a bit longer. Schools are also able to be mothballed in a way that is simply impossible for most of the hospitality industry meaning that schools will be able to reopen in future when the pandemic is over in a way that much of the hospitality industry will not if it faces another closure.

@947EliseChalotte - it's catch 22 isn't it?
Or maybe not quite. Because there are more school children with working parents than there are people employed in the hospitality industry.

So it's about the here & now v the future and the here & now.

I'm with the latter on this one.

@947EliseChalotte, I am not overly keen on DC going back in September. Underlying health issues. However, you have suggested probably the most idiotic and ridiculous way forward I think I have heard on MN since March. And there’s been plenty of stupid posts. Well done.

@Ylvamoon
I don't know what data you are looking at but it isn't accurate, and many working parents will be able to continue to do so even with schools closed (either because they are a key worker, have a partner who they can split childcare with, are a single parent in a bubble with a friend or family member who can provide childcare, or because their children are of an age not to require constant supervision). It is also untrue to suggest that closing the hospitality industry won't have a massive impact in the long term because the reality is that many venues simply cannot afford a second closure (or are unwilling to put up with one) and will never reopen if they are forced to closed again.

Considering this as well as the immense social benefits that being able to get out of the house will bring to those who are stuck living in less than ideal conditions

Imagine trying to argue that the societal benefits of pubs are more important than the societal benefits of schools. 🤣

There are many ways for adults to get out of the house in the absence of pubs.

@StatisticalSense

Yes if schools do not reopen some people may have to give up work or reduce their hours, but the reality if the hospitality industry (which includes much more than pubs) is closed the numbers of job losses will dwarf the numbers of parents unable to work without schools being open. Considering this as well as the immense social benefits that being able to get out of the house will bring to those who are stuck living in less than ideal conditions, the overall impact of closing the hospitality industry is likely to be much greater than keeping schooling online for a bit longer. Schools are also able to be mothballed in a way that is simply impossible for most of the hospitality industry meaning that schools will be able to reopen in future when the pandemic is over in a way that much of the hospitality industry will not if it faces another closure.

What about the social benefits for children being in school? Months and months of lost education is devastating but we mustn't forget the social side- not to mention children who have less than ideal home lives and school is a sanctuary.

And not all parents will be in a position to give up work or reduce hours....

Considering this as well as the immense social benefits that being able to get out of the house will bring to those who are stuck living in less than ideal conditions

Oh yes I bet people in less than ideal living conditions prefer to be stuck inside trying to homeschool their dc. No issues with that whatsoever.

Majorly flawed... what happens to those who work and are unable to home school their kids or finance childcare to look after them? You would have a increase in parents being forced to give up work leading to less tax revenue to fund the huge deficit created as a result of this pandemic...

If a significant number of parents are forced to give up work then you may even have shortages of staff in some sectors which would create further problems.

You then also have the issue of some children missing out on their education completely for example because their parents do not know a level maths etc. And cannot teach them - which would result in many students missing out on opportunities they would once of had. I know for one I’d be completely useless at teaching kids about art or drama.

Completely opposite to what OP said only yesterday
947EliseChalotte Thu 30-Jul-20 19:48:22
Is it time to accept covid as another flu and just get on with life and back to normality. The whole point of lockdown was to flatten the curve.

Then you also said:
947EliseChalotte Fri 31-Jul-20 18:39:08
Covid is not going to disappear, we will be waiting years for a vaccine. How on earth are we / the economy suppose to carry on like this ?

947EliseChalotte Fri 31-Jul-20 18:48:13
Interesting coreythatwas so it's not just the elderly and vunerable we need to shield and be concerned about if it's efecting the healthy, giving them those problems. It's not fair sending those back to work for our economy.

You seem to flip flop all over the place.

@StatisticalSense and you could argue that children who are stuck in less than ideal living conditions benefit from being at school. It's a safe haven for some children. My DS is an only child, he needs socialisation too.

The hospitality sector employs approx 10% of workers. But you also need to include businesses that serve hospitality - the breweries, food producers, cleaners, delivery and haulage companies, etc. Hospitality contributes hugely to the economy and generates hundreds of billions of pounds. Schools on the other hand generate £0. There are not more school children with working parents than there are employees who rely on the hospitality industry.

@BananaCake10
That's a false argument because the alternative involves even greater involuntary job losses that will involve an even greater cut in the tax take.

I appreciate it's a shit situation all round but we can't just stop educating an entire generation of children.
We can't rely on parents to homeschool- some don't want to, some won't have the time and some don't have the ability. We'll see deeper inequalities emerge as wealthy families will pay for tutors etc.

Schools need to be a priority.

Off you pop op, see you when you think of another controversial topic.

The reality is that the number of parents that couldn't work without schools being open in some capacity is absolutely minute (especially if you exclude those who already weren't working), yes some people may have to tilt away from 9-5 working but many jobs can accommodate or even benefit from this. Nobody is suggesting going back to a complete lock down so single parents will be able to bubble with a family member or friend who can provide and there are enough waking hours for both parents in cohabiting couples to work whilst sharing childcare responsibilities (people should never have been working 60-70 hour weeks and therefore the government has no responsibility to those that chose to do so).

[quote StatisticalSense]@BananaCake10
That's a false argument because the alternative involves even greater involuntary job losses that will involve an even greater cut in the tax take.[/quote]
@StatisticalSense That completely depends on what the alternative is?

There is no reason both pubs and schools can stay open?

@MoreListeningLessChatting

Completely opposite to what OP said only yesterday *947EliseChalotte Thu 30-Jul-20 19:48:22 Is it time to accept covid as another flu and just get on with life and back to normality. The whole point of lockdown was to flatten the curve.*

Then you also said:
947EliseChalotte Fri 31-Jul-20 18:39:08
Covid is not going to disappear, we will be waiting years for a vaccine. How on earth are we / the economy suppose to carry on like this ?

947EliseChalotte Fri 31-Jul-20 18:48:13
Interesting coreythatwas so it's not just the elderly and vunerable we need to shield and be concerned about if it's efecting the healthy, giving them those problems. It's not fair sending those back to work for our economy.

You seem to flip flop all over the place.

Think she just likes winding people up

You would have a increase in parents being forced to give up work leading to less tax revenue to fund the huge deficit created as a result of this pandemic
That's a false argument because the alternative involves even greater involuntary job losses that will involve an even greater cut in the tax take
Individual workers pay much less tax than companies do. More jobs will be lost by closing hospitality than by closing schools and preventing some (not all) parents working. Looking at this from the point of view of the government, I believe if they had to choose, they would minimise job losses and maximise tax revenue by prioritising hospitality above education. Hopefully it won’t come to that.

Wild guess that you are a SAHM. Probably with a wealthy partner.
Am I close?

Schools need to open.

What sort of nonsense is this. There’s more jobs to be saved than people who do work in a pub. I couldn’t care less if a pub never opened again. However I would like my child to attend school in September. You do realise OP that medical staff send their kids to school too!

@BananaCake10
The whole point of this thread is that if there has to be a trade off the economy should be prioritised, so whist I very much hope that it will be possible for both pubs and schools to be open my comments are in the context of what should happen if this won't be possible.

The reality is that the number of parents that couldn't work without schools being open in some capacity is absolutely minute (especially if you exclude those who already weren't working), yes some people may have to tilt away from 9-5 working but many jobs can accommodate or even benefit from this.

I don’t think any of that is true and many workplaces are expecting normal working hours and practices from September. No family (or workplace) benefits from parents having to put in 20 hour days btw.

Working parents losing their jobs is very significant. Soaring child poverty levels, child homelessness, all of which are disastrous politically and economically hugely expensive. Many key workers are parents, particularly in sectors like nursing and childcare and while they need to be accommodated, we can’t continue a two tiered education system, there will be rioting.

Fair play to you for even trying to argue for pubs, but even the most invested can see that if we’re pitting one against the other, schools will always be the priority. What country wants to be the one that prioritised drinking over children’s education, socialisation and mental health?

It is tough on the industry though and yes furlough should be extended for them.