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Pubs or kids?

343 replies

coffeeandllbd · 31/07/2020 23:09

Whitty said we cannot have it all. Pubs are jobs. School is mental health.

I have a 13 year old struggling with lockdown. I would choose schools. My brother would choose pubs.

Who would you choose?

OP posts:
Tabletime · 02/08/2020 21:03

@whenwillthemadnessend

In June (when pubs were still closed) our secondary had 30 year ten students at a time (in three separate rooms, all spaced 2m apart from others, with 30 min staggered start and finish times, so the groups never met) and 3 others who were eligible.

In September 33 will be roughly one room full of people (no masks, no distance etc) out of about forty others.

MarshaBradyo · 02/08/2020 21:10

There! Not they’re

Tabletime · 02/08/2020 21:12

@MarshaBradyo That's interesting. This is what I was reading jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2768952

StaffAssociationRepresentative · 02/08/2020 21:13

If over 50s are told to shield or whatever that will have an impact on schools.

Tabletime · 02/08/2020 21:15

Absolutely @StaffAssociationRepresentative If we find ourselves in that scenario, where over 50s need to work from home, it would be great to be allowed a rota for blended learning.

StaffAssociationRepresentative · 02/08/2020 21:25

I suspect our timetable guru has one as an option. We suspect our guy has about 10 timetable options ready so he can just push the ‘send to all button’ just before beginning of term INSET. We have been told what classes we may have but not day/period/classes info yet.

fluffi · 02/08/2020 21:43

Schools and I don't even have children!

If I had to chose between restaurants and pubs though I'd say restaurants then people still have somewhere to go to relax but reduces the risk they'll drink excessively and forget about social distancing imo

StaffAssociationRepresentative · 02/08/2020 21:51

@fluffi but I can SD with KS4 due to number of kids in class. Some of my 15/16 yr olds are giants!

StaffAssociationRepresentative · 02/08/2020 21:52

Can’t SD with the giants obviously. Not can.

Got a third of the Rugby team in one lesson!

everythingthelighttouches · 03/08/2020 00:49

I’m afraid to say that I think in a few months’ time we will look back and wonder how we ever thought that children wouldn’t spread this infectious respiratory disease.

Rosiesma · 03/08/2020 09:20

There are signs up at the pub saying to social distance but none of the staff are enforcing the rules, or putting a limit on the amount of people allowed at the pub. They're also accepting cash payments, and the sign in book is almost bare despite hundreds being there over a matter of days.

So the staff are responsible for other people's behaviour then? People who no one respects, who are on minimum wage, already responsible for the drinking habits of anyone who walks through the door. Who get abused and ridiculed for trying to enforce even a decent standard of behaviour, or the law. They're the ones to blame and not the people actually refusing to follow the rules? Total cop out. I asked a lady to follow the one way system yesterday. Got told no. Just a straight no. She went where she wanted. Short of rugby tackling her I'm not sure what else I could have done.

I feel like if these people were worried about the industry or job security then they should have a better way of enforcing the rules. It's their livelihoods and their health they need to protect, as well as that of their inebriated customer base.

The inebriated customer base should be bloody well responsible for themselves. We are trying to protect our health and our future but the vast majority of people just won't do it. I agree we should have a better way of being able to enforce, but we don't. We can ask, and once they've been an arsehole and already put others at risk we can refuse service, get abused and threatened for that then slagged off all over social media for it.

In the meantime schools have been trying to figure this thing out, and make sure their staff are as safe as can be because the government are thrusting being open upon them and they have no say in the matter.

This wouldn't even need to be a choice if establishments actually enforced the rules and saw it as an investment into their future and the economy but the pub opposite us has just been allowing what and who they can in to maximise profit short term.

Maybe the pub opposite you is lax, but not all are, I've seen it as staff and as a customer elsewhere, there is no way of knowing when someone walks in that they're going to be a knob, all we can do is ask and then if they refuse, stop serving. Where I work it isn't about profit. My employer isn't putting me at risk, they have put everything in place. The general public are putting me at risk by behaving like a few pints and doing what they like is above anything else, and anything said to them about it, any requests to adhere to the rules in place is poor customer service.

Stop blaming the people on the recieving end and start blaming the people actually behaving like idiots.

RedToothBrush · 03/08/2020 09:49

Devils advocate hat:

Pubs appease the young and help to keep political stability.

Mothers juggling with childcare dont riot nor end up at illegal mass gatherings with knock off booze and drugs.

RedToothBrush · 03/08/2020 09:50

You have a lot more trouble with track and trace when people turn to illegal boozing.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/08/2020 10:05

"The inebriated customer base should be bloody well responsible for themselves. We are trying to protect our health and our future but the vast majority of people just won't do it. I agree we should have a better way of being able to enforce, but we don't. We can ask, and once they've been an arsehole and already put others at risk we can refuse service, get abused and threatened for that then slagged off all over social media for it. "

This is another reason why I'd choose pubs to close

A significant minority become quite aggressive if refused service, or reminded of SD rules,
especially difficult to enforce after they've had a few drinks

No surprise if staff choose to avoid being punched in the face

LaurieMarlow · 03/08/2020 10:07

Mothers juggling with childcare dont riot

Wanna bet on that? They’re getting close. 😆

You’ve got to look at the PR here. So to appease the young and the drinkers we renege on our responsibilities to educate children, we cause spikes in child poverty and homelessness, we freeze (mostly mothers) out of the job market for the foreseeable, we see children’s mental health deteriorate.

Even Boris’s government don’t want that international reputation.

RedToothBrush · 03/08/2020 10:10

Laurie, the real threat of riot lies when 30% of the population are unemployed.

I think the danger is that either option risks us getting that bad in some places.

Rosiesma · 03/08/2020 10:12

No surprise if staff choose to avoid being punched in the face

Exactly. And on another thread we have someone detailing that the police told her to go and deal with a complete lack of social distancing herself. So no back up either until someone turns really nasty, and then only if they get there in time.
And we wonder why people just do what they want. They're never held accountable, that's why. Someone else is.

MarshaBradyo · 03/08/2020 10:12

Yep it’s a massive political failure to be a nation of drunks and no education.

Maybe our internationally-classed scientists will bail us out with fast testing.

herecomesthsun · 03/08/2020 10:15

I think we need to be clever. Testing is clever because we can limit what we shut down to contain the virus. Putting effort & energy into education is clever,opening pubs seems less clever right now to me. I would wonder about further repurposing some hospitality to make sure people get food over winter. I don´t think we are going to be able to go down the pub come autumn, but maybe pubs could be used in other ways.

LegoMaus · 03/08/2020 10:20

I just think people are overly fixated on reopening schools in their previous format, regardless of whether it’s safe. In fact there are a number of other options available, none of which are being explored.

  • If it’s about keeping families afloat financially, the government could offer benefits to enable them to quit or go part time. Then they’d have more time to support online learning.
  • If it’s about providing education, there are a number of different approaches. Zoom and online platforms. Smaller classes in different venues such as village halls, churches or function rooms. Outdoor classes, either seated or in a forest school format for younger children to socialise. Denmark has been holding outdoor classes in the stands of football stadiums.

-If alternative schooling creates problems with childcare, then create alternative childcare. After school programmes, preferably outdoors. Kids spend too much time sitting on chairs anyway.

I just think it’s a huge missed opportunity to overhaul our existing school system which is overly focused on sitting indoors looking at bits of paper. Smaller classes and more time outdoors would benefit everyone.

formerbabe · 03/08/2020 10:23

I just think people are overly fixated on reopening schools in their previous format, regardless of whether it’s safe. In fact there are a number of other options available, none of which are being explored

I'll take anything at this point which isn't full time home learning. Even part time or on a rota basis...I just want them to get some education direct from a trained teacher and some interaction with their peers.

I'm a sahm though so appreciate that won't be workable for many families where both parents work.

Jeez, what a bloody nightmare this is.

MarshaBradyo · 03/08/2020 10:27

I’m not against pretty much all of that Lego

I’m not fixated on format but I am focussed on provision of education to all (blimey what we ask for these days).

The last term has been detrimental to many, including even KW children who received a lot of childcare but sometimes very little education.

And whilst being outside is better, too much screen isn’t so as long as that’s not the only solution. So I agree about that part.

As long as the previous education standard is maintained for all, then fine.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 03/08/2020 10:29

Smaller classes and more time outdoors would benefit everyone it probably would but it requires 1- more funding
2 - good weather
We could have done this when the March lock down hit, but we are about to head into autumn/ winter. In addition lots of people probably can’t afford to have children at home in the week, heating the house excessively over the winter months.

DianasLasso · 03/08/2020 10:39

My employer's been incredibly understanding so far, but if schools don't go back in September I could well end up losing my job.

DS's mental health is in pieces due to social isolation.

He has dyslexia, so can't just be left to get on with it online - home schooling him is a full time activity - and a specialist one. I can't give him the support he needs (I'm trying, but my best is not good enough).

I don't suppose it would be a riot if it was only me, but if I lost my job I might go and superfluid myself to the gates of Downing Street.

LaurieMarlow · 03/08/2020 10:49

In fact there are a number of other options available, none of which are being explored.

But there are so many flaws with most of those options.

Benefits - why on earth would you force people who are willing and able to work to provide for their families to go on benefits? This includes key workers, scientists, people with the skills to get the economy up and going again. Forcing them out is crazy. What level of benefits? Would it cover significant outgoings that well paid people will have? How would the (women) get back in to the workforce?

Education - your larger venues point has merit, but nothing has been done. Digital learning is a very poor substitute for face to face and depends on parental input.

Childcare - again, nothing has been put in place and it’s a big and expensive undertaking. I find it a crazy notion for children to be supervised by other people to do work teachers have set. It doesn’t solve the problem anyway, perceived transmission risks are still there.

So the only suggestion there I think worth exploring is larger and outdoor venues. But the government and education sector should have been working on that since April.

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