Pubs or kids?

[coffeeandllbd]

Whitty said we cannot have it all. Pubs are jobs. School is mental health.

I have a 13 year old struggling with lockdown. I would choose schools. My brother would choose pubs.

Who would you choose?

Well if we have to shield all the over 50s some schools will struggle to offer a full service

So you want to appease the mob?
Booze is the opium of the masses. People literally live for a few bevvies at the weekend and a fortnight in Benidorm. They won’t take kindly to having their lives disrupted because a minority want their children in school.

@TotorosFurryBehind

If Schools do not reopen, the impact on women's equality will be enormous

Women also work in pubs and restaurants. Women also want to go out to pubs and restaurants.

There is no win-win situation.

It's been clear to me for years that alcohol is seen as some God given right by an awful lot of people.
Most don't know what the laws that govern the sale of it cover, and like to sound off about those selling it not employing "common sense" when they fall foul of one of them. Most like to make it personal too.
So there's no hope for this new set of rules, especially as the people expected to police them have zero respect from the public and zero back up when people refuse, they're just being seen by the majority as a barrier to getting their hands on booze.
I'm sick to death of dealing with Stampy feet adult children who think their "right" to have alcohol supercedes everything else, and who love to then blame the people left to tell them it doesn't if they have to wait for it, or if they can't have it, and also blame them when things go wrong and they are affected by someone else's behaviour.
It's about time Joe public grew up and realised that they have a responsibility for themselves and how they behave, they have a choice to get shit faced or not and behave like an arse, or to come to a place and refuse point blank to engage in the measures that are in place to slow the spread of a global pandemic just because they don't want to.
But nothing will change because the only people ever held accountable for it all are those serving and supplying, until a time where we lose that "Oh what you like" attitude towards people who behave like idiots and the fucking customer is always right mantra and make people accountable when they fuck up instead of someone else, nothing will change.

Pubs may be jobs, but schools are also jobs, as well as children. Drink at home if you must!
And pubs could diversify into other areas of work. So many other people & businesses are.

I'm sick to death of dealing with Stampy feet adult children who think their "right" to have alcohol supercedes everything else
It’s not just alcohol. People are incredibly selfish. They NEED a holiday and WANT to blast music in the garden late at night and they simply MUST have a party even though there’s a lockdown, and they don’t care who’s affected. Anyone who objects gets told to eff off and mind their own business, including the police. Last Friday a man who knew he had Covid went on a pub crawl near where my SIL lives, and now four pubs are closed and hundreds of people have to self isolate. Can you imagine the anarchy if they get told they can’t have a drink?

It’s not just alcohol. People are incredibly selfish. They NEED a holiday and WANT to blast music in the garden late at night and they simply MUST have a party even though there’s a lockdown, and they don’t care who’s affected. Anyone who objects gets told to eff off and mind their own business, including the police. Last Friday a man who knew he had Covid went on a pub crawl near where my SIL lives, and now four pubs are closed and hundreds of people have to self isolate. Can you imagine the anarchy if they get told they can’t have a drink?

I see it regularly, the results of someone being refused a drink. Be it that it's after time (illegal) they're already drunk (illegal) or appear to be under age and have no id (illegal if they're under age and not a risk I'm willing to take with a fine and job loss for me at stake) and I'm too told to mind my own business - it's very much my business when the law says I'm the one that's going to bear the concequences.
We've created a society where individual "rights" are foremost and responsibilities cast aside. Where people consider a want as a need and will go to any length to get it. Covid has just thrown it massively into focus.

The idea that we make allowances for bullish men to access alcohol and football whilst women lose jobs and children miss out on education is too depressing for a civilised country. Bunch of louts taking over, no thanks.

Well if over 50s have to shield this debate is irrelevant.

If schools don't spread the disease, why would we have to close something else down to be able to open them up again?

We all want schools to reopen, but it has to be in a safe way. Large groups of teachers and students gathering togeher will undoubltedly spread the disease. We can't use the government's guidelines, we must be guided by science and health experts. Lives are at stake.

Here is a quote from an article in the Guardian this week.

Meanwhile, Paul Hunter, professor in medicine at the University of East Anglia, said it had become clear that there is a link between closing schools and controlling the spread of the virus. “The evidence is clear that schools are important in the spread of Covid-19,” he said. “Our studies show that, across Europe, closing schools was the single factor most strongly associated with drops in infection rates.”

The trouble is evidence is patchy

Almost 6 months into the pandemic, accumulating evidence and collective experience argue that children, particularly school-aged children, are far less important drivers of SARS-CoV-2 transmission than adults. Therefore, serious consideration should be paid toward strategies that allow schools to remain open, even during periods of COVID-19 spread. In doing so, we could minimize the potentially profound adverse social, developmental, and health costs that our children will continue to suffer until an effective treatment or vaccine can be developed and distributed or, failing that, until we reach herd immunity

meta study

MarshaBradyo
I agree. But it has to be done in a safe way. Children who have vulnerable adults at home should be provided with online learning, and vulnerable and pregnant teachers shouldn't be forced to work. We still have a lot to learn about this virus. While we do the research we have to protect the most vulnerable in society and not be bulldozed into acceptance by this government.

It would have fo be schools but pubs etc would have to have furlough options again , and current places shut can use furlough its due to end oct and schools only back sept
You cannot expect a whole industry to shut down and people not get paid how will they feed their kids or drove : pay transport to school if they have no income
Other countries seem to be managing both and that is what we should be looking at not really a either or

Pay pubs to shut and open schools. Can't believe some here think the economic impact of closing pubs is bigger than that of keeping schools shut.

@jomartin281271

We all want schools to reopen, but it has to be in a safe way. Large groups of teachers and students gathering togeher will undoubltedly spread the disease. We can't use the government's guidelines, we must be guided by science and health experts. Lives are at stake.

Here is a quote from an article in the Guardian this week.

Meanwhile, Paul Hunter, professor in medicine at the University of East Anglia, said it had become clear that there is a link between closing schools and controlling the spread of the virus. “The evidence is clear that schools are important in the spread of Covid-19,” he said. “Our studies show that, across Europe, closing schools was the single factor most strongly associated with drops in infection rates.”

How could that be known? When everything went into lockdown all at once? Most of the HUBS for the school children were fine. I think there is definitely a risk once September comes of course like everything. But if we continue to close schools parents will be at risk of losing jobs and homes

This time next year we will be sat having the same conversation we can’t carry on like this as though the world must come to a hault.

The idea that we make allowances for bullish men to access alcohol and football whilst women lose jobs
It’s not just men. Look at the news - male and female holidaymakers descending on beaches along the south coast with no masks or social distancing, drinking and fighting. Some of the women are worse than the men.

It's bloody obvious schools don't spread as we are in summer hols and cases are now rising. It's movement of Adults on holiday and large gatherings in religious settings and pubs that are spreading it again. And I would assume adults re entering the workplace.

It's bloody obvious schools don't spread as we are in summer hols and cases are now rising.

Contact between people spreads it. That will include schools when they open, and is why we are talking about being at the limit of easing. Schools are not magical places. In fact, they're less covid secure than pubs, hairdressers and shops!

But my point is schools were open 2 weeks ago ( to keybworkers and others so higher risk kids of parents in the community hospitals schools nhs other close contact professionals) AND cases were dropping weekly.

Now school are actually closed and the numbers are increasing????

@whenwillthemadnessend

But my point is schools were open 2 weeks ago ( to keybworkers and others so higher risk kids of parents in the community hospitals schools nhs other close contact professionals) AND cases were dropping weekly. Now school are actually closed and the numbers are increasing????

Yet cases were higher in schools than in nursing homes just before they closed and that was with limited capacity and lots of outdoor learning going on.

Of course schools spread it, how could they not given close contact for hours by numerous people.

It is still inconclusive on whether young children spread it as much as adults. With some studies saying no.

Yet some studies say younger children have a higher viral load.

@whenwillthemadnessend

But my point is schools were open 2 weeks ago ( to keybworkers and others so higher risk kids of parents in the community hospitals schools nhs other close contact professionals) AND cases were dropping weekly. Now school are actually closed and the numbers are increasing????

But schools only had a tiny fraction of the pupils in so you can't really make a comparison.

TableTime yes they’re are, although this doesn’t necessarily negate lower spreading.

These data all suggest that children are not significant drivers of the COVID-19 pandemic. It is unclear why documented SARS-CoV-2 transmission from children to other children or adults is so infrequent. In 47 COVID-19–infected German children, nasopharyngeal SARS-CoV-2 viral loads were similar to those in other age groups, raising concern that children could be as infectious as adults.15 Because SARS-CoV-2 infected children are so frequently mildly symptomatic, they may have weaker and less frequent cough, releasing fewer infectious particles into the surrounding environment.