School re-opening under threat - thread 2

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

First thread here -

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3981349-School-re-opening-under-threat?msgid=98768334

It seems to me that Johnson is creeping towards masks in schools come September, given that he's extended the paces they have to be worn.

Do teachers think that's enough?

Michael Rosen is asking on Twitter about schools who have asked staff not to wear masks.

frasersmummy can you come and see what we are living with. If I was in NZ I wouldn't be worried, I might not even be worried in Scotland who seem to have a better hold on the virus. England still hat 100+ deaths a day and a doubling of those who are catching the virus.

I don't think my son in year 5 would like to wear a mask all day. He has adhd and hates the feel of a lot of things on his skin. Labels on clothing and even paper on the pages of a book.

@Regulus

Fuck me has anyone just watched Dr Jenny Harris said on Sky, children don't suffer badly from the virus, don't spread it so schools good for September

The same Jenny Harries who when asked numerous times should we be wearing masks 'No they are not required, offer no protection and the people of the UK would not be capable of wearing them properly'. Fast forward and we are now a mask wearing nation and appear to be using them correctly. She comes across as very condescending and I do not rate her advice.

We can see how we go in Scotland, no sd, no masks, no bubbles, expectations forbteachers to sd from pupils nd other staff. Most schools have 1 or 2 days to get ready for full return as plans had been for blended learning when holidays started.

Hopefully it will all be okay however we are seeing rising case numbers just now and this could tip things, not even masks to be worn by secondary pupils on school buses yet we know they transmit at same rate as other adults.
Anyhow, we will hopefully be fine and Nicola is keeping other things locked down to allow for schools to go back.

Yes I think Scotland got it’s priorities right. Crush the numbers to single digits & prioritise getting kids back to school full time with no SD or masks so they can crack on & enjoy life. That should be ahead of pubs & gyms etc.
In England, with our daily rising numbers I am 100% behind masks & SD for schools. We prioritised the wrong things at the wrong time (both going into lockdown & coming out of it)

Gah, sorry for the apostrophe. That’s going to eat away at me all night

The problem is Scotland and England are not comparable. NS has handled this very well and case numbers are very low because of this. I accept that it is a much smaller country, but England still has reasonably high number of cases. We can't watch Scotland and decide if schools in England will be okay in September.

I think part of the answer has to be to separate the educational part of school from childcare. Increase tax free childcare and childcare vouchers and let them be used for all nannies and childminders. Temporary buildings on playgrounds to provide childcare in bubbles for families who need it. Then you can reduce school hours as needed whilst still enabling most people to work.

@oldbagface

The problem is Scotland and England are not comparable. NS has handled this very well and case numbers are very low because of this. I accept that it is a much smaller country, but England still has reasonably high number of cases. We can't watch Scotland and decide if schools in England will be okay in September.

Exactly this.

As a secondary teacher I am really anxious at the thought of teaching pupils in masks due to behaviour. .Most would be fine, but not being able to see who is whistling, chatting, singing, swearing just sounds like nightmare. Would go to part time with the extra workload that would bring before masks

@Maxtry - you have to be really firm on the discipline. As you know some kids sit in absolute silence for one teacher but are demons for another. The trick is to give no slack- you are there to teach not to make them like you.

@Maxtry - that was not meant to be teaching you to suck eggs but we already have a Covid behaviour policy in place which was followed rigidly when year 10 and year 12 came into lessons. Any mucking about and the Head had kids flying home.

Dr Harries did a MN webchat recently.

She said frequently that schools would be closely monitored (and advice updated when required)l She didn't say there was no transmission between DC or from DC to adults, just that risks were low when community transmission is low.

Of course schools have not been open during the time that community transmission was wrestled down from worrying increase, through flattened peak, to low numbers. So the bottom line has to be that we simply do not kniw the role they will play

Evidence from overs as can be useful, but there are limits to how far it can be read directly across to society here (with all the different norms for teen socialising, what the school run is like, clubs, activities and all parts of social and home life).

How teens hang out with their classmates outside school might be as much a factor as what happens in school, and if course if it's Ok to be indoors in a classroom, why would they think they should not hang out together after school?

None of the evidence base rules out transmission from children. Some say it is low, others don't. Which horse the safer bet, in terms of the consequences if it loses?

@StaffAssociationRepresentative
Of course..we also have b strict covid behaviour strategies. Dont feel Y10 and Y12 is really comparable as they were v well spaced, only small proportion of them in and with no masks. I spend a lot of time supporting newer staff with behaviour(hod) and I think masks will throw up a whole new range of behaviour issues...maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised!

I really hope things can be as normal as possible in September. I’m certainly planning for a fairly normal start at the moment (Primary). Children and adults need normality! Of course, it may not be possible and we’ll see what happens. I was worried about teaching a bubble and that turned out absolutely fine so I’m hoping this will be the same.
I happily wear a mask on public transport and shops but I’d rather not wear one at school. But if I’m told to I will.

If this term is badly disrupted, then last years y10 and y12 will have the deepest consequences, but this years y10 and y12 will get the same type of problem starting. The autumn term is a long one -one where a lot of the learning is got through. Take that term away and the impact is rather larger than the loss of the shorter summer term.

Harries' webchat here was interesting, but she clearly had a limited script so it became a bit same-y. Closely monitoring for outbreaks told us nothing about the suite of options for schools if rises were detected (to be fair, not her patch)

And talking (as she did) about your teens activities outside school - instead of answering the questions about inside school - was a bit off. Too much like a politicuan's side step! Newly deshielded families are very used to risk assessing, and have been keeping their DC away from close interactions since March, so are pretty adept at it!

“Children and adults need normality!“

Nothing about a global pandemic is normal. Why do they need normality inside a school but not anywhere else?

Because it’s a place of safety and stability @MrsHerculePoirot Children need routine and familiarity to promote good mental health. That doesn’t mean putting them at risk and of course we’ll need to make adjustments, but the more normality we can give them, the better. The bubbles worked really well last term and I think that’s partly because I tried my best to keep routines and lesson content as ‘normal’ as possible. Really hope we’re in a position to continue that approach in September.

I am looking forward to going back and my classroom is ready. It won't be normal though. My year 2 classroom now has tables in rows. Every child has their own pencil pot with their equipment in it. We will be living in our classroom bubble so no hall PE or assemblies, no dance, drama or lunchtime which will now be eating in the classrooms and a quick play outside. I will make it as good as it can be whilst still staying safe.

Yes we all want normality for our children but unfortunately we are all living through a pandemic so that's impossible at present. We need to concentrate on getting through Covid as quickly and efficiently as possible which may mean disruption in our lives for quite a while. Its awful I have a child starting y11 but schools, teachers and parents need to work together not fight and abuse each other which is what I see on mn everyday.

I’m in Y2 next year as well @stayingaliveisawayoflife We’ve been given permission by the Head for KS1 to be in table groups which I’m really pleased about. You’re right about lunchtime, playtime, assemblies etc being different but children will get used to that. Were you in teaching a bubble? It was incredible how quickly we adapted to the new way of doing things.

It’s a global pandemic, but it’s also one that’s gone from crisis level to being slightly more manageable over the past couple of months.

I think it was right to close schools but I think closing them beyond September would be wrong.

Part time in and out would be sustainable for primary and might give more continuity in the long run. I also think there would actually be a better quality of education, as smaller groups move faster, but I think most people need care full time to do their jobs.

Unfortunately I think schools will reopen in September but it won’t last. I think they will be closed after about 6 weeks