Lockdown tightened in parts of Northern England

[PatriciaHolm]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53602362

Still breaking so no exact detail on location yet but -

"Separate households will not be allowed to meet indoors in Greater Manchester, East Lancashire and parts of West Yorkshire from midnight, the government has announced.
Health Secretary Matt Hancock said an "increasing rate of transmission" had been identified in those areas."

Looks like the guidance is out

www.gov.uk/guidance/north-west-of-england-local-restrictions-what-you-can-and-cannot-do

The borough boundaries are definitive, like Kirklees and Calderdale too. (Postcodes often bear little resemblance to the place they are based on.)

socialise with people you do not live with in other indoor public venues – such as pubs, restaurants, cafes, shops, places of worship, community centres, leisure and entertainment venues, or visitor attractions. You may attend these venues with people you live with (or are in a support bubble with), but should avoid interaction with others. If you run such a business, you should take steps to ensure people do not interact with people they do not live with, in line with COVID-19 Secure guidance.

Pubs have to stop regulars saying hi to other regulars apparently

In Blackburn with Darwen and Bradford, the following premises must remain closed by law:

indoor gyms
indoor fitness and dance studios
indoor sports courts and facilities
indoor swimming pools, including indoor facilities at water parks

I love this one.

I live in this area. Can I still go to cafes, restaurants, the gym and other public places?
Yes. But you should only go with members of your own household – even if you are going outside of the restricted area.

So are the pubs and restaurants in the surrounding boroughs supposed to check the postcodes of patrons when two households meet? Or are they just going to get fucked by this and everyone trying to dodge the guidance?

It also doesn't say if someone living in Manchester can visit friends who live outside Greater Manchester. The only reference is to public places not private ones.

It's by county. Two metropolitan counties, Grt Man (whole) and West Yorks (parts of)

and also Lancashire (parts of) a ceremonial county.

It has nothing to do with the post service or or telephone codes or anything like that.

It’s by Council area. So if you pay Bradford Metropolitan Council your council tax then you are in the area. If you pay another council eg Craven then you aren’t even if you have a BD postcode.

Excuse my language but this is absolute bollocks. I haven’t been to to the shops other than for food, haven’t been to the pub, haven’t had anyone in my home and have only met with my parents and dh’s parents one at a time and haven’t hugged any of them. Now after a couple of weeks of seeing family I can’t see any of them now. Literally all of mine and dh’s family live in two of the borough’s. We only live roughly 5 minutes drive from all family members but technically we are in another borough as over the boarder one that isn’t under restrictions. Fed up doesn’t even come close.

@Flaxmeadow

Why have the locked down Rossendale? Could they not find it on the map or did they get it confused with somewhere else

I expect because its between Rochdale (Greater Man) and Blackburn (Lancs)

Manchester (a similar population to Bradford) is interesting. It's quite low in numbers. But again, it's very close to large towns with high numbers (also in Greater Manchester). So you could ask why not Leeds as well, because Leeds is very close to Bradford and Kirklees (Kirklees has large towns, high numbers again).

Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire are similar counties, but if it spreads to the city of Leeds then that would be almost another million people.

This affects a huge population in the north

Leeds and Manchester cities are quite low but it's the cities and large towns around them that have the high numbers

Yet Ribble Valley’s not affected despite its proximity to Blackburn and Pendle?

Ah, I see, so clearly defined once you understand the definitions properly. We're about a mile inside both kirklees and Bradford authorities on the Leeds side, so not affected.

But will also affect lots of Leeds residents who have relatives in the areas with the new rules who will have been planning to visit them over the next few days.

@RedToothBrush

Jennifer Williams *@jenwilliamsmen* It's frankly irresponsible from a public health point of view not to brief the local media who will be trying to get this message out in a clear manner. There is a GMCA meeting and an Andy Burnham presser today, so hopefully some clarity will come from that. Not happy though.

Someone asked in reply

Does anybody know if there is going to be a formal announcement- ie a daily briefing? Or are all govt announcements being made via Matt Hancock's Twitter feedfrom now on?

Jen Williams who is a senior journalist at the Manchester evening news replied she had no idea.

Please stop trying to justify government for this shit management of the situation. This is now the last day in July. Its not early days of March. The government should be organised even to do public health messages properly rather thsb than this shit show.

I understand that Matt Hancock is doing tv and radio after 7am this morning but frankly gicen the nature of 24hr news and that businesses and households need to know the details of what came into force at midnight before midnight its not good enough

It's a communications shit show.

My very elderly dad will have gone to bed before the (completely garbled message) came out.

He only listens to the news once a day, so won't know about it this morning.

Friday is the day his cleaner comes, and since lockdown was relaxed he's been paying her to do his weekly shop (doesn't do internet, even if it was possible to get online deliveries, which I can tell you, having tried very hard to do, just can't be done).

So he and she will be breaking the law unless I can manage to get through on the phone. Unlikely as he gets up late and is stone deaf.

All because Matt Hancock couldn't organise a communications piss up in a brewery.

(Obviously gutted on a personal level - DS and I were going to visit in a couple of weeks, and at his age we live with the ever-present worry that this might be the last time we see him.)

@NiknicK

Excuse my language but this is absolute bollocks. I haven’t been to to the shops other than for food, haven’t been to the pub, haven’t had anyone in my home and have only met with my parents and dh’s parents one at a time and haven’t hugged any of them. Now after a couple of weeks of seeing family I can’t see any of them now. Literally all of mine and dh’s family live in two of the borough’s. We only live roughly 5 minutes drive from all family members but technically we are in another borough as over the boarder one that isn’t under restrictions. Fed up doesn’t even come close.

it is bollocks.

I'm so glad most people are trying to do the right thing, thanks for doing it.

I'll keep fingers crossed it doesn't last long and keep away from the covid!!

What a load a crap. Great way to teach everyone to break rules. Introduce ridiculous ones with no notice or explanation last minute at 10pm via twitter. And the night of a major festival. With no prior warning. The worst part about that is that, having prepped for days and spent £££, it will obviously now be ignored and can't be enforced. Well ... good luck enforcing rules in future. Once people start breaking them, it much easier the next time round.

This is very obviously about Eid. We have been told for weeks there is a problem with cases in very localised areas of the Asian community. Mostly, in these areas, that means Muslim. And it's Eid. If it was announced via twitter (which I don't have) on xmas eve at 10pm that on xmas day I couldn't celebrate with my family, I would find the lack of prior notice, the way of announcing, the sheer lack of acknowledgement of the festival in the announcement, to be incredibly disrespectful. Of course, while we may have restrictions over xmas, we all know we wouldn't be told that way.

I struggle to see how they will enforce this. I live in Kirklees, I can go 10 minutes down the road and be in Wakefield and go to the pub and meet someone else from Kirklees there, who is going to be checking on us?

I have played by the rules this whole time, I actually stuck to the original lockdown rules once things were eased because it has been known in kirklees(in my particular area) that there have been spikes in cases, my kids haven’t been to the park or seen grandparents. However these new restrictions make no sense, I can’t go to my parents garden(at a distance) but I can go to church or the gym or restaurant.

Yet Ribble Valley’s not affected despite its proximity to Blackburn and Pendle?

Ribble Valley is going further north though and more rural. It seems to be the 2 counties Grt Man and West Yorks (west) that are the main areas. I supposed because they're densely and highly populated urban areas, though no Leeds

I suppose Blackburn, Lancs and areas around it got dragged in because of Blackburns high numbers

this is excessively broad-brush

Greater Manchester is a huge area - more a collection of large towns. The Greater Manchester borough I live in has an infection rate the same as for example the London Borough of Hackney. When you factor in that one large care home had an outbreak this week, our community transmissions figures are even lower.

And I still can't work out the science. DC2 is permitted to attend childcare today, I can attend my hair appointment tomorrow, and we can visit the gallery we have tickets for on Sunday. I cannot figure out how any of this is less risky than sitting in MIL's back garden, but do know that sitting in MIL's back garden doesn't add to GDP, which appears to be the government's priority.

They have to have pubs, cafes and such open because they made a big fuss about the 'Eat out to Help out' discounts which start this weekend.

Try living in Leicester, as of today we lose the freedom to have friends/family round to the garden. From Monday we get to go to a restaurant/cafe, no news about play parks for kids and if we do go to the pub we can't go with another household, but we should still stay home unless it's an essential trip.

You couldn't make this crap up and honestly after 4 months in lockdown I give up.

It's not just about Eid, although there's obviously a worry that cases will sky rocket with large numbers of multi-generational households socialising together: on the BBC news last night they said there had been an increase in Covid 19 cases in young people in the Trafford area.

The guidance is shit though - we can't sit in my parents' garden this weekend, but I can go to the indoor gym with people from other households.

Literally all of mine and dh’s family live in two of the borough’s. We only live roughly 5 minutes drive from all family members but technically we are in another borough as over the boarder one that isn’t under restrictions. Fed up doesn’t even come close.

As it stands the restrictions are silent about people in the restricted zone meeting another household on private property outside the restricted area.

It says that they can not meet another household in a public area (this is quite explicitly written) but nothing about on private property.

In theory this means they could visit someone in a back garden outside the restricted zone as long its in line with the wider restrictions (no more than 6 or 2 households provided socially distanced).

Also if you meet in public outside the restricted area its completely unenforceable. They cant expect restaurants and pubs to check which council you live in and whether you are in the same household. And if its an open space such as a park no one is going to check either.

This does have quite a lot of ramifications for those on the outskirts of the restricted area and it sounds like a social nightmare saying no to people.

It also means people outside the area are not going to want to enter the restricted zone to do things like shopping or eating out even if they aren't meeting anyone. Thats bad news for places like the Trafford Centre.

It also will stop people from wanting to return to the office if they can wfh. Nothing on this in the guidance. The government policy is currently to encourage businesses to start going back to the office. I can't see it going down well in commuter belt outside Greater Manchester now.

The clarity on it is crazy. The contradictions make people question the entire guidance and almost encourages people to find ways around it (which is bad news for those on the border outside the restricted area).
.

It is about eid. They waited until everyone had already spent money buying things and announced it couldn’t go ahead last minute.

Didn't announce it before hand as people wouldn’t have spent the money...got to keep the economy going a!!

I can imagine this happening at Xmas too, but only once everyone has paid/bought stuff-again...the economy!

@Thesearmsofmine

I struggle to see how they will enforce this. I live in Kirklees, I can go 10 minutes down the road and be in Wakefield and go to the pub and meet someone else from Kirklees there, who is going to be checking on us?

I have played by the rules this whole time, I actually stuck to the original lockdown rules once things were eased because it has been known in kirklees(in my particular area) that there have been spikes in cases, my kids haven’t been to the park or seen grandparents. However these new restrictions make no sense, I can’t go to my parents garden(at a distance) but I can go to church or the gym or restaurant.

Its unenforceable.

@BarbaraofSeville

Ah, I see, so clearly defined once you understand the definitions properly. We're about a mile inside both kirklees and Bradford authorities on the Leeds side, so not affected.

But will also affect lots of Leeds residents who have relatives in the areas with the new rules who will have been planning to visit them over the next few days.

I'm close to Bradford too. I did think it might mean lots of people going to relatives in Leeds, but I suspect a lot of people will be ignoring it anyway.

@TheLegendOfZelda

What a load a crap. Great way to teach everyone to break rules. Introduce ridiculous ones with no notice or explanation last minute at 10pm via twitter. And the night of a major festival. With no prior warning. The worst part about that is that, having prepped for days and spent £££, it will obviously now be ignored and can't be enforced. Well ... good luck enforcing rules in future. Once people start breaking them, it much easier the next time round.

This is very obviously about Eid. We have been told for weeks there is a problem with cases in very localised areas of the Asian community. Mostly, in these areas, that means Muslim. And it's Eid. If it was announced via twitter (which I don't have) on xmas eve at 10pm that on xmas day I couldn't celebrate with my family, I would find the lack of prior notice, the way of announcing, the sheer lack of acknowledgement of the festival in the announcement, to be incredibly disrespectful. Of course, while we may have restrictions over xmas, we all know we wouldn't be told that way.

Indeed.

@RedToothBrush - the guidance isn't silent on that at all, it's about the second bullet point that you must not:

visit someone else’s home or garden even if they live outside of the affected areas

It is about eid. They waited until everyone had already spent money buying things and announced it couldn’t go ahead last minute.

No they did not. This has been on the cards for weeks now in these areas and widely reported in local news. It isn't just Eid where people have spent money, people have booked staycations and holidays as well. Booked days out with family, will miss pub meals and so on.This is about everyone in these areas. Not just Muslims and a religious food festival

The main message is that cases are too high and rising in those areas. It looks like lots of people got that message, but I hope this time effort is being made on translation for non-English speakers.

@wowfudge no, indoor gyms have been ordered to close again.