Scary Peer Reviewed Science - Trigger Warning

[ClimbDad]

Taking Mumsnet HQ’s suggestion on board, this thread is for those who want scientific information about COVID-19. It is clearly advertised as scary, and has a trigger warning, so no complaints from anyone complaining they didn’t know what they were stumbling into.

I’ll only be sharing peer reviewed papers from respected journals and would advise anyone else who wants to share anything to use the same criteria.

The thread isn’t actually designed to scare. It’s designed to inform, so that people can make a decent assessment of risk and lobby decision makers when appropriate. Don’t assume government knows more than you. They’ve been behind the curve on everything.

I’ll start. The Guardian wrote a good article about the progress of respiratory viruses through autumn and how we don’t know whether SARS-COV-2 will compete with flu.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/19/what-happens-when-flu-meets-covid-19

The theory of viral competition suggests COVID19 might be kept at bay by flu. In other words infection by other respiratory viruses might help reduce the impact of a second wave.

However this peer reviewed study published in the Journal of Medical Virology suggests flu and COVID19 don’t compete, and coexist simultaneously.

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jmv.26364

The inference is that having SARS-COV-2 circulating at the same time as influenza will cause more serious infection. It doesn’t seem that viral competition will make things better.

Practically what does this mean? I believe it means it is prudent to be even more cautious during flu season than we were in spring, and to do everything possible to reduce transmission. That is going to be particularly relevant to schools. Even if one refuses to accept schools play a role in COVID19 transmission, it is established science that schools are the engines behind influenza transmission every year, so precautionary measures make sense even if just to reduce spread of flu.

Small cohort study of recovered COVID-19 patients finds the majority have manifest brain damage.

www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30228-5/fulltext

Interesting, but the paper does not really assess whether the changes really amount to the mental image of 'brain damaged'

But it is indeed useful evidence (if such were still needed) that this is not just a respiratory disease.

@climbdad it does seem to say though that the main damage was detected mainly in the central olfactory cortices

And this is where you make something sound far scarier to people with "manifest brain damage" than the paper itself

It is interesting as it shows that it isnt a respiratory disease (although I thought that was known now) and the role loss of smell has

Thanks for this thread @ClimbDad .

“Within 2 weeks, evidence will be published demonstrating the success of an entirely new way of neutralising SARS-COV-2 (and other viral diseases). It’s a method that has only been hypothetical until this point, but which is safer than conventional or novel vaccines, highly efficacious and capable of rapid mass production. This will be the first proof that not only is this method possible, it is very effective.”

@TotallyHadEnoughNow Seen anything interesting today?

I was going to share, but MN has some keen science watchers and someone has already posted to the good news thread.

Also, it’s a pre-print so doesn’t meet the criteria for this thread

So this is what you have been waxing lyrical about climbdad?

@TheWoodsAreDark

So this is what you have been waxing lyrical about climbdad?

A new technology designed specifically for COVID19 that’s completely effective at blocking infection, and someone on MN still isn’t impressed. Tough crowd.

.....and other viral diseases, so I would assume something that’s been around for a while. Your first said it’s ‘very effective and secondly ‘completely effective’, think I will reserve judgement, as we all should.

Is this your treatment @ClimbDad? Why you so pessimistic about our future if you had this up your sleeve lol.
In all seriousness looks good!

@Jrobhatch29

Is this your treatment *@ClimbDad*? Why you so pessimistic about our future if you had this up your sleeve lol. In all seriousness looks good!

Thanks @Jrobhatch29

Still has to get through trials, but it is very promising. I’m not pessimistic at all long-term. Just want people to stay safe until we have working treatments or vaccines available. Risking long-term lung, heart or other injury would be a shame when a vaccine/treatment might only be a year away. But once that damage is done, it’s hard to undo.

more people than usual are being advised to have a flu vaccine, but there will be plenty of dickheads who won't

No words @ClimbDad, just 🏅🎖🏅🎖

I’m not pessimistic at all long-term. Just want people to stay safe until we have working treatments or vaccines available. Risking long-term lung, heart or other injury would be a shame when a vaccine/treatment might only be a year away. But once that damage is done, it’s hard to undo.

I always understood that's where you were coming from, OP. And so do most sensible people, I think.

Im not sure if this has already been shared but this has made me quite anxious and contradictory to what we are being told about children not spreading the virus.

www.news-medical.net/news/20200731/Children-carry-100-times-more-SARS-CoV-2-virus-as-adults-study-says.aspx?fbclid=IwAR1VQi_S65KUOtnlhJ4Qb4dRErZoxIT8QTjlgY4wDUFnp4xUZDNPNHiOWjc

@Showchin2

No words *@ClimbDad*, just 🏅🎖🏅🎖

Thanks. A way to go, but it’s very promising.

@Jihhery

I’m not pessimistic at all long-term. Just want people to stay safe until we have working treatments or vaccines available. Risking long-term lung, heart or other injury would be a shame when a vaccine/treatment might only be a year away. But once that damage is done, it’s hard to undo.

I always understood that's where you were coming from, OP. And so do most sensible people, I think.

ClimbDad Firstly, thank you for the work that you do. I don't always agree with your conclusions but I do think you're doing a great job of raising awareness and your posts are thought-provoking and informative.

Now, do you have any more news on the new treatment that you mentioned earlier on this thread, please? I am hoping for some good news!

I'm a medical writer. I write up results of clinical trials. I'm not sure any clinical team would be happy with their confidential data being discussed prior to publication on an internet forum. Not very professional @ClimbDad

Study published in The Lancet finds children who develop PIMS-TS/MIS-C will likely need long-term, potentially lifelong monitoring for cardiac complications.

www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30271-6/fulltext

Article summarising the paper here
medicalxpress.com/news/2020-09-post-covid-syndrome-severely-children-hearts.html

With evidence of direct infection of cardiac cells, we should expect to see complications in children and adults. The only question is what proportion of those infected will experience these issues
www.statnews.com/2020/09/04/carnage-in-lab-dish-shows-how-coronavirus-may-damage-heart/

@ClimbDad

“Within 2 weeks, evidence will be published demonstrating the success of an entirely new way of neutralising SARS-COV-2 (and other viral diseases). It’s a method that has only been hypothetical until this point, but which is safer than conventional or novel vaccines, highly efficacious and capable of rapid mass production. This will be the first proof that not only is this method possible, it is very effective.”

@TotallyHadEnoughNow Seen anything interesting today?

I was going to share, but MN has some keen science watchers and someone has already posted to the good news thread.

Also, it’s a pre-print so doesn’t meet the criteria for this thread

@ClimbDad

I have read through several times, but I can't see an Update to this post, has there been one I've missed?

Thanks

Nah. He's all talk and no substance.

@ClimbDad you sound genuinely happy when you post this stuff. I can imagine you gleefully knitting at the base of the guillotine.

Missed you @ClimbDad

@Jrobhatch29

Missed you *@ClimbDad*

yeah like a dose of covid

[quote ExmoorPony]@ClimbDad you sound genuinely happy when you post this stuff. I can imagine you gleefully knitting at the base of the guillotine.[/quote]
Even if that's the case, does it change anything about the reality of the virus?