Scary Peer Reviewed Science - Trigger Warning

[ClimbDad]

Taking Mumsnet HQ’s suggestion on board, this thread is for those who want scientific information about COVID-19. It is clearly advertised as scary, and has a trigger warning, so no complaints from anyone complaining they didn’t know what they were stumbling into.

I’ll only be sharing peer reviewed papers from respected journals and would advise anyone else who wants to share anything to use the same criteria.

The thread isn’t actually designed to scare. It’s designed to inform, so that people can make a decent assessment of risk and lobby decision makers when appropriate. Don’t assume government knows more than you. They’ve been behind the curve on everything.

I’ll start. The Guardian wrote a good article about the progress of respiratory viruses through autumn and how we don’t know whether SARS-COV-2 will compete with flu.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/19/what-happens-when-flu-meets-covid-19

The theory of viral competition suggests COVID19 might be kept at bay by flu. In other words infection by other respiratory viruses might help reduce the impact of a second wave.

However this peer reviewed study published in the Journal of Medical Virology suggests flu and COVID19 don’t compete, and coexist simultaneously.

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jmv.26364

The inference is that having SARS-COV-2 circulating at the same time as influenza will cause more serious infection. It doesn’t seem that viral competition will make things better.

Practically what does this mean? I believe it means it is prudent to be even more cautious during flu season than we were in spring, and to do everything possible to reduce transmission. That is going to be particularly relevant to schools. Even if one refuses to accept schools play a role in COVID19 transmission, it is established science that schools are the engines behind influenza transmission every year, so precautionary measures make sense even if just to reduce spread of flu.

You state that you will only be sharing peer reviewed studies and then link to an article written by the politically partisan and persistently scaremongering Guardian. If everything the Guardian had said was going to happen with regards to Covid was true the pandemic would already be over because everyone would be dead.

The OP has shared a Guardian article to illustrate that there is a question over whether flu and covid can co exist. But then has shared a peer reviewed study to illustrate his(?assuming from your username OP!) point. His argument isn't coming from the Guardian, it's coming from the peer reviewed study.

Following because reassortment and recombinant viruses haunt my dreams.

And are a strong argument for zero covid over "the public don't seem too bothered by deaths of around 100 a day on the day of announcement so let's stick at that."

However, surely if existing hygiene and social distancing measures are kept in place, and the plans for the flu vaccine are rolled out, then the potential is for flu season to be pretty mild?

Why are you only interested in "scary" peer reviewed articles? Do reassuring ones not warrant discussion as well?

@AnIckabog

The OP has shared a Guardian article to illustrate that there is a question over whether flu and covid can co exist. But then has shared a peer reviewed study to illustrate his(?assuming from your username OP!) point. His argument isn't coming from the Guardian, it's coming from the peer reviewed study.

Thanks. Exactly this. Shared the Guardian to explain the viral competition theory because it’s easier than writing an epic post. But the peer reviewed study disproves the theory.

@Frazzled13

Why are you only interested in "scary" peer reviewed articles? Do reassuring ones not warrant discussion as well?

The scary monicker is a bit of a joke. Welcome to share peer reviewed positive journal papers. I’d love to see as many of those as possible.

It's the rationale for increasing the eligibility for the flu jab this season. Some things you just don't want to find out the hard way, so as we do not know the interaction, it is right to assume thee will be none (unless you want to gamble lives, that is)

Of course if people have a condition which makes them sneeze, if they are also Covid infectious, they are propelling the virus much further than by the actual Covid symptom of coughing.

@Frazzled13

Why are you only interested in "scary" peer reviewed articles? Do reassuring ones not warrant discussion as well?

I imagine it's like Brexit. Post facts, get piled on for "scaremongering" by denialists. It's letting people who prefer reassuring lies know they won't enjoy this thread. And giving them a warning so they can't play the victim card regarding the content.

I read the other day that it might not be possible to have flu and cv at the same time but even if that’s true you’re surely still vulnerable to it before and after so not sure what difference it makes.

I think everyone should get flu vaccine this year, if nothing else as a dry run of what it will be like to implement mass vaccination for Covid if/when we get that

Thanks, ClimbDad, marking my place.

oh FFS. hide hide hide

@yeOldeTrout

oh FFS. hide hide hide

No need to hide, hide, hide.

Flu jabs, masks, social distancing, smaller class sizes. The point of all these studies is to give a better understanding of what we face and with that improved understanding should come better decisions.

I’ll be sending my children into school in masks in September. They will all have flu jabs.

There are so many people claiming unclear information around COVID and this is because there are so few peer reviewed scientific articles and previous research so big thanks for drawing attention to this OP.
These aren’t scare-mongering articles (found in most many mainstream newspapers which are later contradicted) they are scientific articles which can really inform behaviour hopefully to keep people safer.

I for one would much rather read a peer reviewed paper than a speculative article. The latter of which seems to have scared half the population into hibernation or been so sensational people have actually gone the other way and given up any measures.

Thanks for link.

I work in a school so I'm following stuff that mentions schools.

@climbdad would you be supportive as well of a 4 day week for example for schools and manatory 2 week October half term and an extra week at Christmas.

All of those would also seem sensible to help reduce transmission as well

Thanks for the interesting posts @ClimbDad

I just KNEW who had started this post before I read it

Obviously low vit d is a big factor.
I read when they gave higher doses to children it did prevent a few cases of flu in kids.

Bear in mind though nasal flu is a live (might be attenuated?) vax so people could catch that from kids i think. And could weaken kids immune system for a few days.

Flu jab is usually only about £15 from Boots.
I think gps being a bit more easy going regarding antibiotics would help too.
For my mum and dc they have ended up at ooh or hospital when not given the AB.
Of the outbreaks at schools there are lots of non covid ones so those are still spreading and causing covid symptoms.
The buggest help would be everyone staying home even with just sore throat or runny nose as even if that isnt covid it could cause another person a cough or temp so thats days of for lots of people and testing. Same with d&v symptoms as sometimes kids with covid will only get that.

Thank you for posting ClimbDad

Place marking. Thank you @ClimbDad.

@ChavvySexPond That is also one of my fears in giving Covid such free reign.

Thanks @ClimbDad marking place

Also placemarking, thanks for starting the thread.