Are we a couple of weeks behind Spain and France?

[BKCRMP]

If Spain is v.likely in a second wave and France not far behind them does that mean we are also heading straight in to one again?

Will schools open regardless this September?

I honestly think we have thrown away the opportunity to get children safely back to school, even if it was just for a month or two, by opening everything else up so fast.

It was almost the summer holidays. A few more months of keeping things closed, then opening schools, seeing how that went and then opening other things would have allowed the virus to die down even more over the summer meaning less community spread.

As it is almost everyone I know is taking part in ‘risky’ activities ‘’because the government says it’s ok to do it’’ I’m pretty annoyed that people wanting to physically go back to the gym will ultimately stop my children going back to school and damage their mental health further.

@Worriedmum999 I agree pretty much, the priorities have been all wrong.

I felt Scotland's idea to reopen e.g. beer gardens but not indoor bits of pubs was a reasonable halfway house. Gyms reopening is pretty ridiculous imo.

England is in a sorry mess, stuck with cases a bit too high to relax, no sign of any government plan to actually move us forward.

Easy to blame 'Europe' for cases rising, it is government indecisiveness that's the real issue. it's getting to me now. I can see it dragging on and on.

I think of cycling as being a super middle class pursuit. Is that just a London thing? Everyone I know who cycles can easily afford £50 of bike repairs, though obviously they are entitled to go for the vouchers

I'd much rather Boris improved the NHS than spent tax money on bicycle vouchers.

By the time obesity is being dealt with by NHS the cost is very high. Prevention is good.

Many more would cycle to work in London if the chance of being knocked off was lower.

Better cycle lanes and higher acknowledgment that it’s a good idea - both good.

I hope the vouchers go to people who will cycle more though

@namechangedschoolquery

I think of cycling as being a super middle class pursuit. Is that just a London thing? Everyone I know who cycles can easily afford £50 of bike repairs, though obviously they are entitled to go for the vouchers

I agree, and also nearly 3 male to 1 female cyclists. This is a policy to make middle aged, middle class men happy.

I find it annoying you can get tax back - at higher rate - on bikes worth more than £2k! I'd rather give that may net in bloody fruit and veg vouchers to lower income families.

FFS may net = money

I agree, and also nearly 3 male to 1 female cyclists

I bet part of the issue is the lack of safety in London.

Extra cycle paths are a good idea.

@MarshaBradyo

I agree, and also nearly 3 male to 1 female cyclists

I bet part of the issue is the lack of safety in London.

Extra cycle paths are a good idea.

No, research shows it is pretty hard to do the school run before work on your bike.

Still it will help many, including females to have better bike paths. Even if it’s females who don’t do the school run.

Actually loads do it with their dc at our school, tend to be the men though.

@labyrinthloafer Scotland now has the inside of pubs open too, but like England it's sit down service only. New cases haven't risen much here since that happened, nor since travel was allowed to some other countries. However in most parts Scotland is much less densely populated than England so it makes infection control easier.

In the countries where it has started to spike again, one big factor seems to be opening of indoor things like night clubs. We need to learn closely from these other countries and make decisions accordingly, but I don't think talk of second waves is helpful at the moment.

And a Dutch mother - obviously a better approach to cycling.

I'm not opposed to cycle paths (I use them!) I'm just saying this policy will predominantly benefit middle class males and it is designed to do so as they are a core voting group for this government.

This is not about tackling obesity in the most effective way.

@rookiemere than you, was not aware of that change.

What would you do?

I honestly think it’s great. Dh and I stopped cycling everywhere when he got hit by a car (not his fault, car driver didn’t look, gym towels broke his fall tg).

I’d love to see London change this way.

@labyrinthloafer i was worried about opening of inside of pubs too, but it seems to be tightly managed at the ones I went to here and when on holiday in England. Having said that, I've not been to many and those I have were naice gastropub type places. I suspect there may be other places not following new guidelines that strictly.

It will benefit me personally too, but I don't think it will tackle obesity in the most effective way.

It doesn't mean it isn't an ok thing in its own right, but it won't help those most at risk of obesity + covid, and I would prefer a proper strategy to look at the systemic reasons behind obesity/ill health within poorer communities, and interventions there.

A massive smoking cessation blitz this summer would have been better covid-wise than some cycling routes in a year's time.

Think about who the government doesn't care about. Policy is being targeted at groups of voters, not for the purposes of reducing covid impacts across the country.

Sorry to be cynical. Cycle lanes are good. Reducing covid deaths this winter is more important, imo.

It's all very well saying that gyms and leisure etc shouldn't have reopened, but without additional further financial assistance most of these businesses would go under. My dance school reopened this week with class sizes of no more than 8 children per class (with no crossing over between groups) and an extensive cleaning regime between every group. We have 3,000 square feet in total, and a good sized main dance studio. I have spent thousands making my premises covid-safe ( paid for with the business loan). Having such small classes is exhausting, I'm teaching twice as many hours per week for approximately a third less of my wages (most of what I earn will pay the studio rent and outgoings) plus all of the extra time now spent cleaning, but I don't begrudge it at all if it's what needs to be done in order to run classes safely.
I have had nothing but positive responses to how my classes are being run, the children have adapted really well to the socially distanced spacing in the dance studio, and several parents have said that they feel that their child is safer at their dance class with me than they would be at school. (two of these parents are teachers btw).
I do think there should have been a better checking system (with an inspection of the premises and risk assessment) prior to opening though, I have seen some small dance schools and gym facilities with far more customers in the building and not socially distancing, and only those who can prove they can reopen safely should have been allowed to reopen as some businesses' interpretations of the government guidelines are very lax from what I have seen. Any business unable to reopen safely due to the size or layout of their premises should then be given additional financial assistance.

It’s really hard to reverse obesity, especially by winter. What intervention do you think would be more effective? (Genuinely interested, I couldn’t think of any but may just have fatigue re thinking of stuff)

What is the latest on smoking? Last I heard on here (based on research) it wasn’t that bad plus CV19.

I agree cycle lanes have wider benefits, lower pollution and lower number of people on PT.

I also just remembered when I did the nursery run with toddler on my bike plus seeing parents (usually the mother) with bike attachments for two dc. It would be great if more could travel like that without being amongst cars.

I think the obesity and cycling schemes are both deflection from the current situation. Sure it's great for people to lose weight and become fitter and may stop them from getting covid as seriously, but both things are long term measures and will have no impact on a rise of covid numbers in winter.

I'd rather see a focus on dealing with the NHS backlog for all those other things that killed and impacted peoples health prior to covid, whilst hospitals and doctors are not overwhelmed.

I gave up cycling into work - central Edinburgh- as it was just too scary being in the same lane as the buses and taxis. Now they are increasing the sidewalk width, that will reduce the road width and make it even more crushed. No thanks. I just parked a couple of miles away and walked in - wonder why walking isn't being promoted. It's free , doesn't require any skills,can be done by people of just about any weight and requires no government scheme or voucher. But I guess like hand hygiene, it's not sexy enough to be talked about or garner any press attention.

@MarshaBradyo

Anything targeted this year would be better than cycle lanes in 12, 24, 36... months' time.

If tackling obesity by winter is difficult, let's stop pretending this cycle path policy makes any difference to what should be the number one priority of tackling covid this year. This cycle lane stuff is intendedto distract.

Smoking is obviously a big issue for anything lung-related, where did you get that
Here is the government's own info on smoking and covid www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-advice-for-smokers-and-vapers/covid-19-advice-for-smokers-and-vapers

Look at the people most at risk of covid this winter, other than the generic group of 'over 50s' who will get a flu jab. What specifically is being targeted at low income, BAME, those in poor housing, those on front line?

I repeat, cycles lanes benefit me personally, I do not own a car, I want sustainable transport. But they won't help anyone this year and my personal priority would be tackling covid effectively. A better measure short term would be temporary cycle lanes now (low cost) with targeted health interventions for high risk groups. Both would help fight covid NOW.

On here (research quoted) it stood out and I remember it because it was counterintuitive. I have google overload and no time maybe later. The face always comes across well though.

I wouldn’t say no to temporary cycle lanes. All for things happening quickly.

I agree about cycle lanes. We need more of them. But that's not going to happen quickly, and it's not going to help people that either can't afford a bike and its repair, OR have nowhere to store them. I used to cycle to work, when I lived in a tiny studio flat. I had to keep my bike in the flat, up against the wardrobe, and move it every time I needed to go to the bathroom. I couldn't lock it up outside - notices on railings prohibited it.

Even now, when I have a house, I still have nowhere to store a bike. It'd have to be in my hall, which isn't that big and it would look messy / would trail in dirt on cold, wet days. Even if I had somewhere to store my bike at home, it's not practical for me to cycle to work if I were to stop WFH. We have about six showers and an office of 3000 people.

On the gym front, I understand the arguments against them, I really do. But I don't know how - from a mental and physical health perspective - the government could justify not letting them open, but allowing pubs to do so.

I am so impressed with my gym. We book an hour slot, and there's a 15 minute gap in between each hourly session for cleaning. All the equipment has been moved around so it's at least 1.5 meters apart. Wipes, sprays, paper towels and sanitiser everywhere. It was previously carpeted where the cardio and weights machines were - they've laid vinyl floor. Max 10 people in at a time and everyone is vigilantly wiping their machines before and after use. It's a 24 hour one normally, but they're now only opening during staffed hours. The AC isn't on.

If there was a proper checking system in place, and they all operated as mine does (it's an Anytime Fitness, so a huge chain) I don't know how anyone could argue they aren't FAR more beneficial to have open than pubs. I feel so much better for going to the gym - I've been walking and doing lots of yoga in lockdown but I miss my weights.

I don't think properly managed gyms or exercise classes should impact the numbers greatly. There is also a balance to be struck between opening things that have a benefit to physical health versus a slight corona virus risk. Certainly for children it's very heartening to hear of dance classes being reopened in England as DCs less likely to want to run/walk or do online classes.

Here in Scotland outdoor football still closed and they've now chained up the goalposts to make them unusable. DS 14 and his mates have been using the grounds and I will not apologise for this - he has put on weight and I need to balance the risk of a long term obesity problem versus covid risk.

Re cycle lanes.

Dh used to cycle about 15 miles each day into manchester (and back again).

He would never use a cycle lane (where they exist) for the following reasons.

He cycles too fast for them. They have a speed limit and he can keep pace with the other traffic.

The cycle lanes dont exist outside greater manchesters borders. All their fancy plans for developing them end at the border. There is no wider consultation or development policy beyond county borders. They just 'stop'.

The cycle lanes are not maintained. They are full of litter, weeds, rocks, sticks and pot holes. If you are cycling at speed they are quite honestly dangerous. Even if you are a slow cycler they arent fit for purpose. There is no point in building these things and then leaving them to rot.

The cycle lanes are on the pavement and dont have right of way. So you end up stopping twice as often to give way to cars, so the journey takes longer.

If you live within the Greater Manchester borders there are public transport alternatives because there is an integrated strategy for transport. The real issue with commuters is in places beyond greater manchesters borders where there are no intergrated transport strategies to the centre of manchester. Dh can cycle into the city centre within 45mins. If he wants to use publuc transport he has to leave the house 2 and a half hours before he had to start work. As i say we live 15miles from his old office. We live in an area with a high concerntration of people who also work in Central Manchester. The total lack of proper schemes like park and ride or indeed park and cycle is a massive hole in transport strategy because it isnt so PR friendly.

If you are taking kids to school you can not sling them on the back of your bike and then rock off immediately to work. The school run is a major issue than needs to be addressed in terms of additional free childcare to allow children to be walked to school AND you need to force greater flexibility of employers over working hours. Cycle lanes dont fix the problem here.

Also cycle lanes increase the abuse and hazards for longer distance cyclists because car users then believe that all cyclists should use them and dont understand why they might not do. There are reasons not too. Unless you fundamentally change the attitude of drivers to cyclists and that cyclists have equal rights to or even priority over drivers you will continue to have issues.

A lot of the issues stemming from driver / cyclist tension are about cyclists not having experience / training and drivers not being taught to respect them. For example drivers in the Netherlands are taught a certain way to exit a car when getting out so they dont knock off cyclists and there is widespread use of bikes from a young age as a family - they are not just commuter devices. You need to change the entire culture here.

Lastly the reason i dont cycle is partly because commuter cycling is something i dont have the same ability to do as DH due to my physical size and being a woman. Also as he points out is that safe road cycling is in part about confidence. He has to have confidence to have a good road position so hes seen by cars, and he frequently sees much more timid women cyclists off to the side in blind spots because they lack this confidence.

I HATE all these big announcements about cycling as some magical solution. They dont understand the problems at their core.