Are we a couple of weeks behind Spain and France?

[BKCRMP]

If Spain is v.likely in a second wave and France not far behind them does that mean we are also heading straight in to one again?

Will schools open regardless this September?

I think testing is pretty good now. Current lab capacity is 318,829. They're doing around 140K test a day.

They are also introducing a new rapid test over the autumn and winter that doesn't require lab processing. It will be for screening staff and admissions in healthcare settings and when fully up and running will test an additional 280,000 a day. It will however, be gradually introduced from October, with the top figure not until March.

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-testing-hospital-covid-19-results-how-long-dnanudge-a9635226.html

If they care about the economy, they should be working to drive down transmission. Government are not doing enough. Our tracing is really, really not adequate.

Testing is ok in terms of numbers sent out but in the UK we self administer whereas in mainland Europe it is usually a HCP. And we have very high false negatives and large numbers of unreturned tests - no doubt in large part due to self-administration.

The economy will not recover until people feel confident - and all polling shows that the public don't feel confident.

And they don't because our (England's) numbers are too high to feel confident.

Labyrinth yes confidence is also key to stimulus. I don’t know much about test and trace so if it’s lacking agree it would be a good idea to improve it.

It sounds like we have a good amount of capacity. I think it's going to be absolutely vital to get people tested and back in to work, because we can't afford to have everyone with a cough taking a fortnight off each time. I think normal viruses are going to be just as disruptive as Covid in terms of staffing and sickness. Even if Covid itself magically disappeared, the self-isolation of people with similar symptoms is going to make this a very difficult winter.

Track and trace needs to be much better but we also need much higher enforcement of the rules.

Many people won’t go out and stimulate the economy whilst others are avoiding quarantine, don’t SD, won’t wear masks etc.

The other thing about confidence is that it’s linked to feelings of financial security as well as feeling better about numbers.

If people fear the economy will shrink further they will save rather than spend, which compounds the issue.

I agree confidence is key to stimulus but also are we also rethinking whether we want or need half the goods we may have purchased in previous years? Personally I've thought much more about spending and think carefully before ordering. We ate out at a restaurant last week and it was wonderful. Prior to March this was a regular thing taken for granted but going forward it will be more of a treat on special occasions. Same with beauty treatments I've had a haircut but after so long without eyebrows, nails etc I've started doing my own and saving a fortune so plan to continue. Our food shopping has changed also as I've had more time to use everything we buy and less top up shopping trips so when the treats are gone we wait. I had to pick up a click and collect schhol uniform from M&S today and wasn't interested in browsing at all.

Nightclubs reopened in South Korea.
@yeOldeTrout wasn't a nightclub in South Korea responsible for a minor outbreak?

I agree with various points above about enforcement, financial security and reviewing/changing spending.

I feel it is rather enormous, what we're facing.

@labyrinthloafer theres also a significant number of people who don't want us to return to normal...

@RedToothBrush Thank you so much for your very reasoned posts which have nicely balanced some of the very negative threads on here recently.

Spain achieved 0 deaths for quite some time
@ChateauMargaux funny that two regions announced 17 deaths between them on one of the days that the Spanish government claimed to have had no deaths at all. www.ft.com/content/77eb7a13-cd26-41dd-9642-616708b43673
No figures fiddled here, honest Señor...

The Spanish case rate is more than twice that of the UK's and could be even worse if the Spanish were testing as many people as the UK now is.

@Pomegranatepompom in policy terms I am one of them, I feel the UK generally and England most notably has very serious issues in a wide range of areas.

But I do want 'normal' in many ways - such as being able to just go to my opticians or dentist etc.

Red tooth - thank you for your intelligent considered posts - I hope everyone takes the time to read them.

I will feel devastated if schools are closed again at a national level again - the research has shown that online is not working for many pupils for many reasons. We adults need to take more responsibility first eg weight management, cutting smoking etc etc before the kids, who have zero power/voting rights etc take the hit again

It's not schools completely shut vs schools open as normal.no SD, if we had a more sensible school plan we'd probably have a higher chance of them staying healthy and transmission free.

What would a better plan be?

I think we need to realise that even if schools are “open” education will be compromised. Teacher/pupil/bubble isolation. Teacher’s children’s isolation etc etc meaning staff need time off. In addition to normal seasonal colds etc being confused with Covid symptoms. Some schools early March nearly closed due to inadequate ratios. The NHS advice is you must remain at home if still feeling unwell even after a negative test. It’s just going to be very hard to provide the same level of education as normal.

@Newgirls

What would a better plan be?

We could put our heads together and come up with something, full time no social distancing is really the absolute shittest option.

I'd start with some extra money from government which would help, surely.

@Newgirls

I will feel devastated if schools are closed again at a national level again - the research has shown that online is not working for many pupils for many reasons. We adults need to take more responsibility first eg weight management, cutting smoking etc etc before the kids, who have zero power/voting rights etc take the hit again

It’s not just the children though.

What about the school staff and the family members of every one at the school? Don’t they deserve the protection like other workers have? Or don’t they count as long as parents can send their children to school? Many of whom won’t have been adhering to the guidelines, have travelled etc.

Either make schools safe or keep them closed and enable materials so parents can continue with the education. Children are the responsibility of parents after all.

Yes of course school staff should at an absolute minimum be afforded the same safe working environment as are specified elsewhere in society. It’s beyond crazy that many are demanding they aren’t and shows what a society we live in. As I’ve mentioned before schools in Hong Kong have been closed far longer, apparently without the uproar. I doubt those kids will be that badly affected either as culturally parents take on more responsibility. We’re in the middle of a Pandemic, in some cases when numbers likely rise, even ignoring risk to the school itself, it’s probable the school will contribute to wider community spread by remaining open. If hospitals in the locality are struggling I’m sure schools will be shut. There has to at some point be recognition of pulling together as a community. Nobody is saying it’s ideal but we’re in a pretty unprecedented situation.

@Oaktree55
* The NHS advice is you must remain at home if still feeling unwell even after a negative test.*

On the NHS advice page it says that you only need to stay at home until you get the results of your test. After that you are free to do as you normally would depending on how ill you’re actually feeling.

Actually that page doesn't say anything either way about whether you can go back after a negative result but still with symptoms! It only says what you must do til you get your result!

It says:

A negative result means the test did not find coronavirus.

You do not need to self-isolate if your test is negative, as long as:

-everyone you live with who has symptoms tests negative
-everyone in your support bubble who has symptoms tests negative
-you were not told to self-isolate for 14 days by NHS Test and Trace – if you were, see what to do if you've been told you've been in contact with someone who has coronavirus
-you feel well – if you feel unwell, stay at home until you’re feeling better

Here's the link www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing-and-tracing/what-your-test-result-means/

Yes it’s the last point above I meant. I’d be pretty annoyed if a kid came back into school still Ill even if they tested negative. Apparently false negative tests are reported about 20% of the time so that’s quite high.