Feeling a bit duped about the seriousness of Covid....

[mostwonderfultime]

Found out my district of 55,000 people there have been 156 confirmed covid cases since March. Now I hear there is an enquiry into the over reporting of Covid deaths in England. Average death rate has now lower than average indicating many people who died from Covid would probably died in the next month or so. No surge in Covid cases or deaths since relaxing lockdown measures (I know about Leicester, but we all know reasons why they have more cases and again they haven't had a spike in deaths).
In the meantime, the economy is screwed, Kids have been off school for months, best friends business has gone bust.

Not doing the work for you as it is clear on this thread alone. You know the people I am talking about. At work there are always people that get the flu, colds, chest infections etc etc. I have never had the flu, never get colds and would be willing to bet my house that IF (and it's a big if as transmission is so low) I got covid it would be mild to asymptomatic. We should have shielded the people on the list. Had social distancing and let everyone else crack on

I don't understand your question @HannahStern?

Oh well better contact Boris quick @Coronabored. Tell him you'll be fine so panic over. I dont suppose you have any loved ones so no worries there.

Sadly I think you'll get to test your hypothesis this winter. But don't worry, there are now reports coming out of the US of people who got mild cases in March getting reinfected and having much more serious COVID a few months later. So it may be youll stop being bored before too long.

I'm sure my friend who lost both her parents within days to COVID would not agree with you.

They were early 80s but in fairly good health, they could have lived another decade and seen her children grow up.

This one Sisterwives? I apologise for confusing them; they were so similar! *

At last... I have felt this from the start.*

I couldn’t believe and still can’t that they closed the schools.

I am so angry about the dire effects on the economy.

My friend who works on a care home with several “covid” deaths told me many deaths were recorded as covid even without a positive test

Dont need to contact Boris he is thankfully not getting his advice from you guys and your anecdotes and come September when the kids are back, my life is pretty much back to normal. Shame for the thousands of kids that have suffered during lockdown that this won't be the case for them.

@ClimbDad - I dont know if you're still on this thread as I've come to it late. But I think you said something that has worried me. Are you saying that people are likely to be reinfected by Corona virus? And that vaccines are much further down the line than the media portrayal suggests? And might not even work? I'm not a stupid person but I have no science or medical background and don't routinely read medical journal articles. It's hard to keep up with what the newspapers report.

So if what I've understood you're saying is true does that mean we're just doomed? Is life expectancy going to be lower and are out children more likely to face debilitating illness in their lifetime as a result of covid? I'm feeling a bit upset now.

@TheClaws Yes. You told them they were ignorant (paraphrasing) and when I pointed out they were correct, that many deaths had been reported as CV in care homes without a test (something I have no problem with) you said they were implying it was some kind of conspiracy.

Which you can see, they made no implication at all. Just repeated something they'd heard which is in fact true.

@GalesThisMorning I read this thread this morning and am absolutely furious with what Climbdad wrote. I think it's deeply irresponsible. A friend of mine who's been struggling a lot with all this was feeling quite desperate last night on social media, and going from that to this post made me angry.

Please don't let it get you down. I don't know why Climbdad is writing what they are - but seeing some others' responses, I was reassured that others aren't taking their words seriously. They're either doing it to cause panic for fun, or despair - or perhaps hoping that people will then say 'oh well, I may as well not be careful then'.

If you read the actual updates direct from the universities involved (Oxford have a page on news and updates, and there are other trials going on too in lots of other countries, and one or more is bound to be successful) then the research does look really promising. Look up The World Health Organisation Covax Facility - there are 150 countries all working together to try "to guarantee rapid, fair and equitable access to COVID-19 vaccines for every country in the world, rich and poor, to make rapid progress towards slowing the pandemic".

If Climbdad is really working in vaccine research, perhaps they're working on one of the failing ones, but there are plenty of other tests going on, and I trust the word of actual, published scientists rather than someone on Mumsnet.

We should have shielded the people on the list. Had social distancing and let everyone else crack on
This.
I was teaching in school in March when the risk was far higher. Lots of people including me had various symptoms/in fact pretty much everyone I know. Nobody died and nobody I know as hospitalised.
I am in my 50s and have no qualms gong back in September tho' am angry at the brigade demanding masks for kids and all the rest of the rubbish in schools.

@ClimbDad You're an arsehole. Please stop trying to scare people. Most people realize what you are.

[quote GalesThisMorning]@ClimbDad - I dont know if you're still on this thread as I've come to it late. But I think you said something that has worried me. Are you saying that people are likely to be reinfected by Corona virus? And that vaccines are much further down the line than the media portrayal suggests? And might not even work? I'm not a stupid person but I have no science or medical background and don't routinely read medical journal articles. It's hard to keep up with what the newspapers report.

So if what I've understood you're saying is true does that mean we're just doomed? Is life expectancy going to be lower and are out children more likely to face debilitating illness in their lifetime as a result of covid? I'm feeling a bit upset now.[/quote]
Top scientists don't know the answer to this, so why would Climbdad know?

Climbdad works in vaccine research. Purleease! He's probably the lab cleaner or toilet scrubber.

No one knows what will happen, I agree. But plenty of people know a lot more than I do, I'm just trying to ask a question of someone who appears more knowledgeable than I am. I know anyone on mumsnet could be a liar but some people appear knowledgeable which is why I'm asking. I asked climbdad for his opinion, I won't base my life's choices on what he says, but yes it has upset me

More from the WHO:
"The goal of COVAX is by the end of 2021 to deliver two billion doses of safe, effective vaccines that have passed regulatory approval and/or WHO prequalification. "

If scientists from 150 countries think this is a reasonable timetable then they must think there is some possibility - otherwise they could have set that date at 2025 or something. It's keeping me hopeful!

GalesThisMorning it is currently unclear how long immunity to coronavirus lasts, so it is possible that people who have had it once could get it again. I wouldn't say it is "likely" as it isn't particularly "likely" that you will get it at all. It does however mean that a strategy of heard immunity is useless (no estimates suggest an immunity of longer than 3 years).

Current vaccine trials are looking promising however they are a considerable way off being usable by the mass public and lots could happen between now and then.

COVID19 is really new. The medical research community can't even agree on what type of disease it is (it a respiratory disease or is it a blood vessel disease?). It has similarities with other coronavirus's, but it also acts very differently. We do not yet know the long term implications on the 'recovered', but there is increasing evidence of at least medium term lung damage. It will be years before we see long term effects (because long-term means lasting years!).

@GalesThisMorning

No one knows what will happen, I agree. But plenty of people know a lot more than I do, I'm just trying to ask a question of someone who appears more knowledgeable than I am. I know anyone on mumsnet could be a liar but some people appear knowledgeable which is why I'm asking. I asked climbdad for his opinion, I won't base my life's choices on what he says, but yes it has upset me

He isn't more knowledgeable though. I referenced a very recent peer reviewed study published on t cell immunity the other day and he said it was wrong because he has read a text book. He has been going thread to thread sharing doom and citing dodgy studies to anyone that tries to share some hope or optimism.

GalesThisMorning but please do not feel upset. The risk of COIVD to you or your children is generally really low. And we cannot hide away forever (unless that's your style!). If everyone takes sensible precautions - social distancing, wearing masks in indoor public places and frequent thorough handwashing, the risks are very low.

Thank you @FanaticalMrFox. I very rarely get tearful over this, but this morning I am for some reason. Luckily my 4 year old is demanding I concentrate on him now and not this- probably for the best!

@Kayengel,

what do you think @Climbdad is?

By the way, then you said "Climbdad works in vaccine research. Purleease! wink He's probably the lab cleaner or toilet scrubber."

I think they said they were working on a COVID treatment, not vaccine. Generally, vaccines aren't treatment though some are (Rabies, perhaps).

I don't think they are trying to scare people. By the way, their response to my question of 16:17 took 15 minutes. By 16:32 Climbdad's answer leads me to think they are exactly what they said, someone working in the state of the art in the field. None of their answers seem alarmist to me, merely factual.

I think sensible posters can tell who knows what they are talking about.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/health/covid-antibodies-herd-immunity.html#click=t.co/OCbnhXfkqw" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/health/covid-antibodies-herd-immunity.html#click=t.co/OCbnhXfkqw

This is a very clear summary of what’s known so far and should help calm some fears. Reinfection is unlikely. Immunity is not just about antibodies. Vaccines don’t have to be anything close to perfect to achieve herd immunity.

LaurieMarlow

Yes, I wasn't suggesting herd immunity through vaccination wasn't a good plan, just that herd immunity through natural infection is unlikely to work. Herd immunity through vaccination works very well with other diseases and may very well work with COVID (I hope it does).

@Zilla1 well he's taken you in! I would wonder why someone who says they are working on a Covid treatment have time to scaremonger on a Mumsnet forum.

Yes, I wasn't suggesting herd immunity through vaccination wasn't a good plan, just that herd immunity through natural infection is unlikely to work

That’s not the case either necessarily. T cells will be part of the answer as well as already existing immunity to other corona viruses.

There is already evidence that at least some people who had a very mild case of coronavirus can catch it a second time. That makes sense - mild cases dont generate much of an immune response.

The idea of a vaccine is to produce a strong enough immune response that the person vaccinated has complete or partial (get it but mildly) protection for an acceptable period of time (usually a year plus). Once this protection wears off you would need a booster (or possibly not if there's little of it in the general population and you are low risk.

There are other factors that may possibly complicate the action of a vaccine which need to be considered and they are being. That's why it takes time.