Disability and the covid response - it feels unfair...

[OpheliasCrayon]

I maybe come across as fairly crappy on other posts because I'm not bothered by Corona and carry on with life as normal as much as is possible without risking others.

I'm just wondering if there's any disabled people out there who feel the same as me, or if anyone who isn't disabled has considered this?

The covid response has pissed me off. Not because I don't want to keep people safe, of course I do. I don't want people gravely ill or dying if they don't have to be!!!

But there have been people at risk of illnesses and unable to work since the start of time, but we have been largely ignored and any accomodations we want , need and are entitled to are a fight.

There are many illnesses which would put me at risk, but I go to work and always have done with no PPE and no allowances are made or provisions put in place to stop me getting ill. It's just tough luck if I do , but the results of some illnesses would be much more devastating to me than covid.

I've been too unwell to go into work more times than I could possibly count, but I've been able to work from home. But this has been a gigantic fight and battle, where I've had my pay taken off me unfairly, I've had to fight to be allowed to so things, to have accommodations made, and have had to get the unions involved because employers have refused to give me what I'm entitled to.

People suddenly think it's a good idea to wash their hands, take precautions to not make other people unwell, are allowed to work at home and are provided with means to do so etc etc the list goes on.

Suddenly when something affects EVEYONE potentially, the world goes into meltdown and allowances are made for everyone. But what about us? Who are always at risk? Who always struggle to go into work physically? Where has the help been before now?

I don't think the covid response shouldn't happen , but I do feel even more aggrieved that until now, my needs and the needs of countless other disabled people I know, have been pushed aside.

I don’t have a disability but tbh I agree with you. It’s unfortunate that this virus can effect people worse who aren’t usually affected so badly by illnesses but this is a small proportion of people and we really need to get on and live with this now, just like you and others have done before this.

I dont feel disability needs are pushed to one side, not at work anyway because of disability rights, employers are scared not to consider everything ..but I do think disabled people are often "othered". People see disabled people as undesirable. I think if you look fit and able people think you must be fit and able, they dont seem to see an in between. Ie you either are really ill or you must be fine.

Yanbu at all. I don't have the same issues as you (although I do have a disability) but I understand the frustration.

@NotShiny

I dont feel disability needs are pushed to one side, not at work anyway because of disability rights, employers are scared not to consider everything ..but I do think disabled people are often "othered". People see disabled people as undesirable. I think if you look fit and able people think you must be fit and able, they dont seem to see an in between. Ie you either are really ill or you must be fine.

Sadly this is how it should be, but it isn't. I've been signed off work and then signed off to work part time due to disability but my employer refused to pay me, until I got the unions involved to help me claim the money that was mine.

Whilst there are disability rights and employers do have to abide by them, in my experience, and that of others I know, you sometimes end up having to fight to be heard / have proper accomodations made.

I think it depends if what you are looking for is reasonable though. What might be reasonable to you, might not be reasonable to them. I think most employers do their utmost to be reasonable, the larger employers anyway, I think a lot of small firms might not. At the end of the day though sometimes I think you need to walk away, because if they cant do what you want them to, it might not be worth the fight .

I dont really think covid has changed any disability rights though.

@NotShiny

I dont really think covid has changed any disability rights though.

Oh it has! You wait til people with a disability are going to be bullied for not wearing a mask in 2 days....

@NotShiny

I think it depends if what you are looking for is reasonable though. What might be reasonable to you, might not be reasonable to them. I think most employers do their utmost to be reasonable, the larger employers anyway, I think a lot of small firms might not. At the end of the day though sometimes I think you need to walk away, because if they cant do what you want them to, it might not be worth the fight .

Being paid my wage when I am entitled to it, as I fought and won with the union is definitely reasonable.

I don't know of any allowances that I or friends have asked for that aren't reasonable. After all - it's not unreasonable to want to be able to turn up at work and do my job like everyone else.

As it goes I know nothing I've asked for is unreasonable as, whenever I've had a fight I've gotten a union involved and have been td what I've needed is perfectly reasonable and my employers are just avoiding responsibility

@NotShiny

I dont really think covid has changed any disability rights though.

No I didn't say it had - my point is that suddenly everyone wants allowances and changes and different set ups because the virus could affect anyone.

But when it affected just disabled people previously...it's been a fight for our rights.

Ah..that's not work disability rights. Not wearing a mask doesnt really come under what I think if as disability rights, that's just an exemption. All people need to say us they are exempt and refer them to the government website if it's at work. This is slightly different as people think the less people wear a mask, the more the risk for them, and actually, I think they have a point. Disabled people are exempt from mask wearing but that does put other people at risk unfortunately.

Admittedly I've only ever worked for 2 companies, but rightly so they have been very accomodating for those joining with disabilities. It's scandalous this isn't the case across the board, but doesn't surprise me, sadly. I don't think though that the measures were taken to protect people as much as to ensure the healthcare service didn't collapse, the government doesn't really care about individuals, they haven't made the decision they have made to help protect people on a household level. Plus many have been made to work without adequate protection etc, so I don't know. Also many individuals have been against the measures, and would rather have continued working and have a job to go back to. The issue is a very important one, but not sure it really carries across.

I agree OP. My dd is 17 ... it’s bad enough having to fight for adjustments at college due to her disabilities .. i honestly dread how things will be in the workplace

She’s applied for so many part time jobs, has declared her disability (ASD) and has had nothing back. Nothing. From hundreds of applications. She’s now stopped declaring her disability and has had 1 interview.

She’d be such an asset to a company, given the right conditions, but I fear the workplace is not as ‘equal opportunity’ as it’s supposed to be by law.

@Staplemaple

Admittedly I've only ever worked for 2 companies, but rightly so they have been very accomodating for those joining with disabilities. It's scandalous this isn't the case across the board, but doesn't surprise me, sadly. I don't think though that the measures were taken to protect people as much as to ensure the healthcare service didn't collapse, the government doesn't really care about individuals, they haven't made the decision they have made to help protect people on a household level. Plus many have been made to work without adequate protection etc, so I don't know. Also many individuals have been against the measures, and would rather have continued working and have a job to go back to. The issue is a very important one, but not sure it really carries across.

Yes that is true. It's scandalous the lack of PPE for health care workers and care workers. It's true. The government gives not one shit about the individual.

"I don't know of any allowances that I or friends have asked for that aren't reasonable. "

Unfortunately there are often things disabled people ask for at work that arent reasonable. Just because you dont know of any, doesnt make it less so. I know of loads of instances.

"After all - it's not unreasonable to want to be able to turn up at work and do my job like everyone else"

It's not always that simple though is it. What if for example to allow a disabled person to do their job, they needed someone to look after them and then an employer has to pay two people instead of one? And what if a disabled person needed a window closed in the hot weather, but this then affects other people. What if a disabled person needed equipment to work but the employer couldnt afford it? The list could go on. So it's never as simple as saying it's not unreasonable to be able to do my job....because sometimes the adjustments required means it might be.

@Whattodo1610

I agree OP. My dd is 17 ... it’s bad enough having to fight for adjustments at college due to her disabilities .. i honestly dread how things will be in the workplace

She’s applied for so many part time jobs, has declared her disability (ASD) and has had nothing back. Nothing. From hundreds of applications. She’s now stopped declaring her disability and has had 1 interview.

She’d be such an asset to a company, given the right conditions, but I fear the workplace is not as ‘equal opportunity’ as it’s supposed to be by law.

It's so unfair

Yet when EVERYONE needs accomodations..and everyone is at risk...it's all suddenly different

I hope your daughter is able to find a job

@NotShiny

"I don't know of any allowances that I or friends have asked for that aren't reasonable. "

Unfortunately there are often things disabled people ask for at work that arent reasonable. Just because you dont know of any, doesnt make it less so. I know of loads of instances.

"After all - it's not unreasonable to want to be able to turn up at work and do my job like everyone else"

It's not always that simple though is it. What if for example to allow a disabled person to do their job, they needed someone to look after them and then an employer has to pay two people instead of one? And what if a disabled person needed a window closed in the hot weather, but this then affects other people. What if a disabled person needed equipment to work but the employer couldnt afford it? The list could go on. So it's never as simple as saying it's not unreasonable to be able to do my job....because sometimes the adjustments required means it might be.

Well I mean I'm not talking about things as blatent as that. Just the simple easy day to day thing.

I can't help but feel your demonstrating the point I've made somewhat. When it's a virus that can affect everyone it's all about anything that could help. But you've just jumped on my point that mostly it's just unreasonable what we are asking for. It's not though.... But anyway you've proved my point - when it can't risk you directly then it's not your problem and those of us with disabilities are being unreasonable.

Yeah, it's certainly interesting to see everyone else getting to grips with bits of my life.

Part of me just sighs and goes, "Yep, that's the difference between how minorities get treated and how majorities get treated."

And another part of me has had to curtail my MN usage because if I see one more fucking thread whining that it's unbearable to temporarily put up with just one of the privations I'm expected to endure daily – indeed expected to endure cheerfully else I'm bitter and dull! – I may put my fist through the internet.

Thing is, I know it's shit living like this. I don't actually wish it on others and wouldn't want people to feel their own feelings aren't worthy, or that they can't talk about it to help them get through it. It's good that they share and get through that way. But god it stings.

The ones really getting me at the moment are the: "I've been pushing food into my face because life is boring, and I'm also not getting much exercise, and now I'm getting fat: are thin people somehow different to me?"

I'm sedentary, and horrifically bored, lonely and incapacitated, and I'm not overweight: how do you think I do it, you twat?

Thanks ophelias ... I really hope so. She’s very intelligent, hard working, will do anything you put in front of her to her absolute best. She works way harder and with much more dedication that her peers - that’s her ASD. She struggles with communication/conversation/interaction. She’s desperate to get a part time job and be ‘normal’ but no one is giving her a chance. For a full time career, I’m honestly struggling to see it happening. I never tell her this obviously and remain very very positive with her.

@PerkingFaintly

Yeah, it's certainly interesting to see everyone else getting to grips with bits of my life.

Part of me just sighs and goes, "Yep, that's the difference between how minorities get treated and how majorities get treated."

And another part of me has had to curtail my MN usage because if I see one more fucking thread whining that it's unbearable to temporarily put up with just one of the privations I'm expected to endure daily – indeed expected to endure cheerfully else I'm bitter and dull! – I may put my fist through the internet.

Thing is, I know it's shit living like this. I don't actually wish it on others and wouldn't want people to feel their own feelings aren't worthy, or that they can't talk about it to help them get through it. It's good that they share and get through that way. But god it stings.

The ones really getting me at the moment are the: "I've been pushing food into my face because life is boring, and I'm also not getting much exercise, and now I'm getting fat: are thin people somehow different to me?"

I'm sedentary, and horrifically bored, lonely and incapacitated, and I'm not overweight: how do you think I do it, you twat?

You've put my feelings into words exactly.

No I don't want anyone to be ill or know what living like this is like - but it does somewhat make the divide more striking that elements of our day to day life have become part of a global distaster response....whereas this is just...our life.

"I can't help but feel your demonstrating the point I've made somewhat. When it's a virus that can affect everyone it's all about anything that could help."

Like what, I'm not sure what you mean, can you expand on this? What is it you think workplaces are doing now that they didnt before? Now there are Government rules that employers have to follow to stop spreading the virus. Workplaces have to be covid safe or can be shut down.

" But you've just jumped on my point that mostly it's just unreasonable what we are asking for"

I havent said that at all. You were seemingly saying categorically everything people ask for is reasonable, you even said you dont know anyone who has asked for adjustments that arent reasonable. I was pointing out that's not always the case, by giving examples.

"But anyway you've proved my point "

How and what point?

"- when it can't risk you directly then it's not your problem and those of us with disabilities are being unreasonable"

You know nothing about me. You dont know if I have disabilities or not. I've just pointed out that it's not always reasonable what people ask for. Most employers I've worked for or are aware of have been pretty good. I'm sorry you feel yours hasnt, but that doesnt mean all employers are bad. Sometimes requests arent reasonable.

@Whattodo1610 my nephew did a scheme after finishing college that was run by the council. It was basically a series of placements with them, but they were supported (its for those with ASD). He then secured a job afterwards, it's nothing fancy but he absolutely loves it, and they are very supportive. Honestly, a few years ago none of us would have thought he would be able to work as he is largely non verbal although very bright, and finds many challenges in day to day life. Is there something similar available to get her some experience? There should be a careers advisor at college, admittedly they vary in usefulness, but some places do have some schemes that help. Not that they should have to, but it might help.

@NotShiny can you give some examples of unreasonable requests? I did type a long reply but I feel like it's not worth it really.

You're assuming that every employer and workplace is suddenly doing everything 'right' because now everyone is at risk.

That's not the reason why, if they're doing it 'right' it's because they're a sensible employer and they HAVE to to be able to open, not because they only care once everyone is at risk. They're just doing what they've been told to to stay within the law and not be at risk themselves of legal action/grievances etc.

But many are still not, you only have to read the threads on here to see that.

And ophelia, I am coming from a point of trying to get a role for a very disabled person, which I know is going to be hard...but I also know I cant expect an employer to create such a role just to please me. Massive adjustments would have to be made to get this person into work. I'm pleased the Government is doing things to make workplaces covid safe, because they need to for all of us.

staple ... admittedly they vary in usefulness .... oh how very very true

Our local council does offer a very similar sounding scheme. She’ll do her second year of college in September and we’ll take it from there. Our council careers advisor brought dd job details of roles which required her to interact with the public, despite seeing first hand how non verbal dd gets. She brought nothing suited to dd’s needs.

My dd sounds very much like your ds, she also goes very non verbal. Yet give her a task with direct instructions and she’ll be there to the very end and complete it way better than most. I just want her to be happy and have a job she can cope with from all aspects.

"@NotShinycan you give some examples of unreasonable requests? I did type a long reply but I feel like it's not worth it really."

Staple I've given a few examples further up in the post if you'd like to read them. It's all in the word "reasonable." Smaller employers may not be able to make adjustments that might be too costly for them or make their business not liable.