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The wealthiest families should pay the Coronovirus bill

409 replies

WellDoneBridge · 05/07/2020 19:16

Aibu to think this is VERY unfair the household incomes of £100k plus should be tax EVEN further?!

Ffs... Anneliese Dodds. What a joke!!!!

OP posts:
Iamthewombat · 06/07/2020 18:45

No we do not have a £1m pension pot and the real question is why do you think we should pay more tax than everyone else? We certainly do.

You’re not being asked to pay more tax than ‘everybody else’. You’re ranting because you don’t think that you should pay as much tax as other people on the same income level as you because, according to your earlier posts, you have children, have student loans, live in an expensive part of the country and consider that you are special in some way.

- we pay more tax than low income earners!

Shock! Well-paid people pay more tax than poorer people. What an injustice.

- we pay more tax than households with the same income as us but distributed more evenly!

So your husband is working but you’re not? Isn’t that a choice? If you worked, you could take advantage of your personal allowance.

- DH pays more tax than someone earning the exact same wage as him, because his fees and student loan aren’t accounted for.

How do you work that out? Do you think he should get a discount on his income tax for his student loan, ie that his student loan should come out before tax as a pension contribution would? Don’t be silly. That is not how income tax works.

This is rather like shooting fish in a barrel frankly, but let’s continue:

As has been pointed out several time’s in this thread medics pay one of the highest professional fees of any industry out of their own pocket.

And? You must have known that before you trained, right? You can set the professional fees against tax, which I note that you haven’t mentioned. If your husband earns £65k, as you suggest upthread, that’s a 40% discount.

Other professions have to pay high professional membership fees too. Anybody working as a contractor will have to pay hefty indemnity insurance, for example. Are you suggesting that anyone in a high status field requiring membership of a professional body should be given special tax concessions? Or just your husband and people in his profession?

This is not typical of the majority of other professions most of which have fees paid or heavily subsidised by their company (I used to work in law and this was always the case)

Sorry to rain on your parade, but it is not always the case.

...so yes, medics are a special case’

Because you have to pay professional fees, which are tax deductible? You’ll have to make a better argument than that. I’m starting to see why you left the legal profession.

I can’t decide whether you’re a communist or being intentionally obtuse.

No, Jux is the communist. Do keep up! I’m the one who thinks that you should pay your share of tax, like everyone else has to.

By your logic, isn’t it poor peoples own fault they are poor, why should they consider themselves a ‘special case’?

That’s not my logic, sorry! I don’t think that. I do think that people who earn a good salary should pay more tax, proportionally, than poorer people. A concept that clearly outrages you, judging by your dismay at paying more tax than low earners (see above).

We certainly don’t need our money less than they do so why expect us to pay and not them.

Because you are relatively wealthy. That is how tax works.

More than that, as you yourself pointed out upthread (when you were threatening that doctors would flounce to the antipodes if they didn’t get what they wanted), the country has paid hundreds of thousands of pounds to train your husband as a medic, a career that will pay him well until he retires on a generous pension, also funded by other taxpayers. Do you see that that makes you net beneficiaries of taxation? Which means that any argument for special tax treatment for you is spurious to say the least.

Every level of society can stand to be poorer, unless you’re living on the streets. What you’re saying is ‘Your income exceeds my income so you should give your extra to pay our debt!’ And that’s communist bullshit

I’m not saying that, no. I am certain that my income exceeds yours, but I’m not sulking and complaining about paying more tax because I happen to earn more. Nor should you be.

If you went for a meal with a lower income friend and when the bill came they angrily pushed it toward you and said ‘well you have a better
Job, you should be happy to pay for me’ how would that sit with you?

You really are priceless. That is how taxation works. Have you never worked that out? Nobody likes paying tax, but, to borrow from somebody else, you should be proud to pay it because with it, you buy civilisation. What’s the alternative? Poor people dying in the streets? How would that ‘sit with you’?

Rainbow12e · 06/07/2020 18:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Iamthewombat · 06/07/2020 18:49

Indistinguishable, are they?

KenDodd · 06/07/2020 18:49

Nobody likes paying tax

I like paying tax. I value all the things it pays for.

KenDodd · 06/07/2020 18:52

My partner earns over 100K and is worried about this.
Doesn't seem fair to punish the hard working and wealthy.

I'd tell him not to worry, it'll be the poor and the young who have to pay the bill just like the banking crisis.

Selmaselma · 06/07/2020 18:53

I also like paying tax and contribute to society that way.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 06/07/2020 18:53

Rainbow12e wait are they taxing the hard working too? I thought it was just the wealthy Hmm

bumblingbovine49 · 06/07/2020 18:57

Your income exceeds my income so you should give your extra to pay our debt!’ And that’s communist bullshit grin!

I don't t see that as communism at all. As for the eating out example, I would usually offer to pay more at a meal if I was eating out with someone who earned a lot less than me. I don't see that as communism either.

It may not be ' fair' but taxation is never exactly fair anyway. If it were based on ' fairness in terms of balancing what you pay with want you take out , we should tax people with more children a higher amount as they will be using more of the services that the taxes provide. After all when you go out for dinner with a family with 4 children and you have one, do you expect to pay the same amount ?. I don't, I'd expect the family with four children to pay a bigger portion of the bill but that doesn't mean I apply the same logic to taxes so to me your analogy is spurious

It seems sensible to me that higher earners pay more tax proportionately than lower earners . Not masses more as that does tend to lead to tax evasion but in the UK we pay much less tax than in many other European countries and look where we we are in terms of schools and healthcare? Oops I forgot, we are special and we deserve a good healthcare and education system without paying enough for it. Whereas the Italians/ Spanish/Germans/ Greeks/Danes are not British so they do have to pay more, just not us Hmm

Stellaris22 · 06/07/2020 18:59

Doesn't seem fair to punish the hard working and wealthy

Is this a joke? So the people who lost their jobs because of companies not surviving weren't hard working? Stores etc not being open is not their fault and they have no control over this. Surely they are the ones being 'punished' by this.

Eskarina1 · 06/07/2020 19:05

We shouldn't be worrying about how we repay the Covid debt right now. Part of the mess we're in was the ridiculous insistence on austerity and the damage that did to the NHS and our ability to prepare for pandemic. Government debt isn't like personal debt. We need to do nothing to restrict the economy. Taxes from more people in work, booming business and a reduced benefits bill will make more of a difference.

That said, having had a household income in the late 90,000s - with one high tax payer so no child benefit - living in a fairly expensive city (I could buy a comparable house in outer London for a similar price) and having lost 75% of our income due to Covid YABU.

Having a mortgage for a nice house is not strapped, it's stretched. A choice. Strapped is having a choice between eating every meal and affording school shoes for your kids.

We can pare back. Car is going, luxuries cut, may need to downsize our home but honestly even now we're not strapped.

hadenoughbleach · 06/07/2020 19:06

Nobody likes paying tax.

I wouldn't say I dislike paying tax, I don't mind it, up to a certain level, as I enjoy the benefits of the things it enables us to enjoy as a society.

As a high earner, I think there comes a point when other sources of revenue need to be considered before looking to increase tax on the individual. We already pay 45% tax on all earnings over £150k, in addition to an extra 2% in NI.

There's nothing left to wring out of the individual without resentment kicking in, and in reality, how much would that exercise it realistically raise, compared to sourcing money from corporation tax, inheritance tax or stamp duty reforms. I'd be interested in links to data on this, if anyone has any.

Iamthewombat · 06/07/2020 19:10

As a high earner, I think there comes a point when other sources of revenue need to be considered before looking to increase tax on the individual.

Let’s hear about these ‘other sources of revenue’ then, and why they haven’t been considered by the Treasury.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 06/07/2020 19:10

@Rainbow12e paying extra tax when you are wealthy isn't a punishment. Being a hard worker and only getting paid minimum wage, such as carers and retail assistants, is a punishment.

RedOasis · 06/07/2020 19:13

DOESNT SEEM FAIR TO TAX THE HARD WORKING AND WEALTHY....
So those who are not wealthy don’t work hard! What a serious attitude problem you have! Everyone who works HAS to work hard cos jobs are like gold dust. How dare you. Absolute snob.

rwalker · 06/07/2020 19:13

I earn nowhere near 100k but think it's wrong funny how labour are all for eqauilty so wheres there policy we all pay the same rate of tax.
Got a couple of friends nearing 6 figure salary god do they work for it more a way of life than a job . The stress commitment and hours they deserve there pay.

Iamthewombat · 06/07/2020 19:17

funny how labour are all for eqauilty so wheres there policy we all pay the same rate of tax.

Why do you think that we have graduated tax rates? It is so that people who earn less, don’t pay as much tax. Do you think it fair that somebody earning minimum wage should pay the same proportion of their income in tax as somebody earning £500k a year? Leaving them proportionally less to live on.

Fanthorpe · 06/07/2020 19:22

Flat rate tax is a terrible terrible idea.

mizu · 06/07/2020 19:22

My partner earns over 100K and is worried about this.
Doesn't seem fair to punish the hard working and wealthy.

I'm not sure what you are saying here...........

I earn just above average salary as does my DH. We are hard working but not wealthy. I would be happy to pay a little more tax tbh if I had to. If you earn over 100K I'm sure you could pay a bit more too.

mizu · 06/07/2020 19:23

My partner earns over 100K and is worried about this.
Doesn't seem fair to punish the hard working and wealthy.

I'm not sure what you are saying here...........

I earn just above average salary as does my DH. We are hard working but not wealthy. I would be happy to pay a little more tax tbh if I had to. If you earn over 100K I'm sure you could pay a bit more too.

Pixxie7 · 06/07/2020 19:32

Bunsygirl@ you are so wrong I also live in the SE so do know how expensive it is. My argument is that depending on you income you can choose to live in a cheaper area.
The cost in an area are often in response to location, not that it would ever happen, but if everyone suddenly moved north the trend would be reversed. It’s supply and demand.

PlanDeRaccordement · 06/07/2020 19:33

@Iamthewombat

As a high earner, I think there comes a point when other sources of revenue need to be considered before looking to increase tax on the individual.

Let’s hear about these ‘other sources of revenue’ then, and why they haven’t been considered by the Treasury.

Corporate/Business tax is one. It’s flat rate at 19% of profits (not income).

You have to ask yourself, with the lowest individual tax bracket paying 20% income tax, why is it that giants like Amazon are paying even less than that?

shinynewapple2020 · 06/07/2020 19:36

@WellDoneBridge

Urgh! Why do they think that because you earn £50,000 a year each you're 'wealthy'
Maybe because for a huge percentage of people in this country that is unimaginable wealth ? If you are on minimum wage or on benefits ?
Jux · 06/07/2020 19:46

@Didyousaynutella

Jux I think you are referring to communism there and don’t think it has ever been very successful in any countries that have attempted it. Humans are by their very nature corrupt any there will never be total equality.
I know that communism has never been successful.

Do you think that capitalism has been successful? This is where you get fat cats, people paying their nanny less than it costs for them to store their wine, inequality at a rampant level, NMW workers shoring up the shareholders' privileged life styles, poverty at a ridiculous level for a rich country, constant sneering and devaluing of poor people's lives, demands for the lowering of taxation from those who will never have enough.

We have travelled well passed capitalism and moved into decadence.

People have to use food banks in our country.
People live on the streets in our country.

This is utterly shameful. How can anyone even begin to think we are still a civilised society?

Pumpertrumper · 06/07/2020 19:48

@Iamthewombat

I’m not going to respond to each individual point as I have a cranky baby on the go. Plus you’ve totally missed my point. I’m not arguing the current tax system, or that higher income shouldn’t pay some extra. I am arguing that the answer to the furlough debt is to further increase the taxation of ‘high earners’ who already pay proportionally more than others, certainly aren’t rolling in spare cash and are villainized for wanting to hold onto their hard earned cash. You were the one who suggested doctors were not a ‘special case’ and as others have since corrected, yes they sort of are. That’s irrelevant to the current tax system but very relevant to your argument that Dr’s are somehow rolling in cash they’re begrudgingly trying to withhold from donating to the greater good.

I do work but am part time caring for children. Saying ‘well you could work FT, that’s your choice’ well equally ‘low income workers could retrain/get themselves better paid jobs, that’s their choice!’ Why should they be exempt from further taxation for their choices whilst we are penalised for ours?

1smallhamsterfoot · 06/07/2020 19:57

Do you realise @WellDoneBridge that the full time minimum wage is £17004???

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