Schools guidance released

[Orangeblossom78]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53253722

No dropping of subjects at GCSE then. Posting for info

Teachers were dropping like flies from mid-March

Most of them untested so we have no idea how many of them actually had it!

There were no headlines of mass teacher deaths either!

Absolutely agree re funding for cleaning / Ppe though.

@ListeningQuietly

There is no such thing as "safe"

A 21 year old I know died this week of an undiagnosed heart condition.

People die on the roads
People die of random cancers
People die of strokes
People die from unhealthy lifestyles

There is no SAFE
so lets try to ensure the next generation get the best education they can
so they learn from the fuckups of the older generation

This is such a deeply stupid argument.

Just because some activities aren't safe doesn't mean risks should be taken in others. Daft.

When you get in a car you put your seatbelt on and keep to the speed limit. You minimise the risk.

In schools in a pandemic we should be making it as safe as possible for the adults and children. Why wouldn't we? This means social distancing at the very least and masks.

Let's try to ensure the current generation of teachers are as safe as it's possible to be and not hurl them under a bus, eh? They matter every bit as much as the children.

Our school sent y8 and y9 home before schools were officially shut as they ran out of teachers and we were not the only secondary who did this.

Our school sent y8 and y9 home before schools were officially shut as they ran out of teachers and we were not the only secondary who did this.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

The unions don't always get their own way though you know?

And if the teachers don't feel enough has been done I confidently predict a lot will be off ill, come September. Why don't you want that for them? Don't you want them to be as safe as possible?

[quote DomDoesWotHeWants]@TrustTheGeneGenie

The unions don't always get their own way though you know?

And if the teachers don't feel enough has been done I confidently predict a lot will be off ill, come September. Why don't you want that for them? Don't you want them to be as safe as possible?[/quote]
As safe as possible would mean they were at home self isolating completely, so no.

My kids just want to go back to their secondary school. They would happily accept masks as the price of going back. They've seen kids in other countries do it and do not see it as a muzzle like some Americans do.

Obviously there are teachers who can't wear masks because they might be working with children who are hearing impaired so need to see their mouth but why are we so mask phobic?

@TrustTheGeneGenie

That's not what I said, though, is it? I said social distancing and PPE. That's the minimum, don't you think?

As safe as possible
OK, that is reasonable

• masks : yup totally agree - it of a bugger for eating and lip reading
• social distancing : pick your distance - 2m does not work. 1m just about works .... but denying children physical contact for the whole day will never work

Key thing
HAND WASHING : our grannies told us to wash hands

• after using the toilet (even just a wee by boys)
• after coming in from outdoor play
• before every meal
• after every meal

because they grew up in a world before antibiotics we need to re learn hygeine rules and then the risk of COVID and flu and winter colds will all drop

but this bubbles and staggered start times is rubbish
as is keeping kids off school and parents off work until
when?
all the jobs have gone and the parents are homeless?

Either there's a need for social distancing or there's not. What you can't say is in every other occupation we need 2m or 1m plus as social distancing but it's fine to pack hundreds/thousands of teenagers/young adults/adults of all ages together into crowded corridors with no other measures and say that's fine. There wasn't an easy answer so they've gone with no answer at all.

@netflixismysidehustle 100% agree

Why have they stopped the Daily Briefings again? Gavin needs to explain a lot of the thinking here.
Why is it safe for a secondary school teacher to teach 100s when it's not safe for a primary child to go to school then after school care at a second place?

Masks aren’t that uncomfortable.

Every other country is managing g to use them,

[quote DomDoesWotHeWants]@TrustTheGeneGenie

That's not what I said, though, is it? I said social distancing and PPE. That's the minimum, don't you think?[/quote]
Well, the guidance suggests teachers distance from children and other adults where possible doesn't it?

I personally have nothing against masks if teachers want them as long as it doesn't affect their ability to teach.

Masks don't really stop you catching it though, they stop you transmitting it. I can see how secondary pupils could wear masks, but they'd cause more harm than good in a primary setting.

@@Domdoeswhathewants hear hear!

I honestly despair at the lack of societal responsibility in the U.K. it seems to me as long as most parents get their kids off their hands and back to what they incorrectly assume will be normality in the Autumn then it’s fine to wash hands of any wider responsibility towards teachers and the wider community. We should all be questioning how this Government has handled this situation so appalling so as to leave us in a situation with high community transmission and no confidence in a working track and trace. The irony of the amount of ridiculous H&S practices schools normally have to have in place re school trips etc prior to this Pamdemic but let’s have a novel pathogen circulating and just wing it. It’s a giant experiment. No schools have gone back fully enough yet (with similar community transmission in Europe) to get data. Autumn Term is a giant experiment 🤦🏽‍♀️

Re cleaning, I’m pretty sure the new guidance says regular toilet facilities cleaning (doesn’t define ‘regular’). It also talks of ideally the dining hall cleaned between bubbles and high frequency touch items cleaned more frequently. Items used as teaching resources in school should be cleaned in between each bubble unless 48 hours between groups (or 72 hours for plastics). It says school unforms don’t need to be cleaned every day, no extra cleaning other than what I’ve mentioned in general in school now cases are so much lower. So they don’t seem to want to give any extra funding for cleaners based on that I’d say.

I teach a practical subject and I’m not sure how I can have back to back practical lessons if everything needs cleaning thoroughly between groups (a task that would take me at least an hour a time), ignoring them concerns about getting close to students from a H&S POV.

@hedgehogger1

Either there's a need for social distancing or there's not. What you can't say is in every other occupation we need 2m or 1m plus as social distancing but it's fine to pack hundreds/thousands of teenagers/young adults/adults of all ages together into crowded corridors with no other measures and say that's fine. There wasn't an easy answer so they've gone with no answer at all.

The whole point is you social distance where possible everywhere. If you can't (schools!) Then you cant obv. So maybe schools raise transmission a little, but because you're still social distancing everywhere else, it doesn't get out of control.

It's not a hard concept to understand. They're not saying the virus doesn't transmit in schools. They're saying they need schools to open, but to mitigate that we still SD everywhere else.

I really don't understand the argument in favour for the current guidance. No one on this thread has said they don't want everyone back in school. The current guidance is shockingly letting down teaching staff and in particular secondary teaching staff. If staff had PPE and were encouraged to use it (I personally would want the kids in it too. Most of the kids at my school travel on public transport so would have to wear it to school anyway!) then I don't think anyone would have issues with the return.

To argue you don't want teaching staff to be and to feel safe...I don't get it!

The posters upset about children wearing masks or face coverings... I have a yr2 DC and she has been v happy to wear her mask out and about. If it becomes the new normal for a few months, it won't be scary. I understand that some children this may not be possible for various reasons. I completely disagree with comparing this to wartime and the impact on children!
It could be that the youngest kids in primary wouldn't need the extra PPE as their bubbles are actually bubbles. They won't be mixing with 200+ more each day. Plus this age group on the whole are less likely to be ill. Older children are more at risk.

I was chatting with colleagues earlier. It would be crap for a few months, but temporarily we could divide our department up so we each teach a year group bubble. So one specialist teacher is responsible for a year group. Would help cut down risk surely. There are other things we discussed too. But schools will be reluctant to go against the 'guidelines' as you only have to look at this site to see how some parents can get upset about that.

I was chatting with colleagues earlier. It would be crap for a few months, but temporarily we could divide our department up so we each teach a year group bubble. So one specialist teacher is responsible for a year group. Would help cut down risk surely. There are other things we discussed too. But schools will be reluctant to go against the 'guidelines' as you only have to look at this site to see how some parents can get upset about that

I'd fully support stuff like this. If you can make things better / easier / safer and still teach kids ft, I have absolutely no problem with that. I can't see why anyone would?

Again I don't disagree with the use of masks. Surely if you provide them yourself it's fine? Can they stop you?

That’s comforting as a teacher to know I’m a barometer as to whether it is getting out of control

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince

That’s comforting as a teacher to know I’m a barometer as to whether it is getting out of control

If that's in response to me I don't think you actually understood what I wrote.

Have SAGE explained why COVID spreading in a garment factory is different how it would spread in a secondary. ?
The infection rate is currently 1 in 1700 in the community which is coincidentally around the size of a typical secondary. Crazy to think that one child could have it on day one of term and will probably have no symptoms and the school won't have a clue who it is until a symptomatic person turns up?
A lot of behaviour in both settings seem similar to me - lots of people arriving and leaving simultaneously, having lunch/break in confined areas, jostling down corridors regularly...

If schools are not socially distanced, does that mean I don't have to tell my kids to social distance from their friends before and after school? How can they go from being crammed to walking home 1m+ apart?

@nellodee

So to summarise, if you can, take a few extra precautions, but if you can't, fuck it, just go back anyway. Did I miss anything?

I really wish they would just put that on the website tbh, save the bother of reading it all

They're not saying the virus doesn't transmit in schools. They're saying they need schools to open, but to mitigate that we still SD everywhere else.

Im happy to accept the risk personally, but can absolutely see why teachers are taking one for the team here. If you accept that schools are a significant vector, it makes it hard to argue that the sector deserves no additional protection and / or money. That's the issue many people have with #usforthem and others who paint anything other than an exact replica of what came before in schools as an outrage - there's a big hole in their thinking.