Schools guidance released

[Orangeblossom78]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53253722

No dropping of subjects at GCSE then. Posting for info

I honestly despair at the lack of societal responsibility in the U.K. it seems to me as long as most parents get their kids off their hands
I think maybe it's because parents are desperate to get back to work before they lose their job/ home life.
Do you think that may be a reason?
Coupled with the human right stating that every child is entitled to an education.
what do you think?

@Oaktree55

I honestly despair at the lack of societal responsibility in the U.K. it seems to me as long as most parents get their kids off their hands and back to what they incorrectly assume will be normality in the Autumn then it’s fine to wash hands of any wider responsibility towards teachers and the wider community. We should all be questioning how this Government has handled this situation so appalling so as to leave us in a situation with high community transmission and no confidence in a working track and trace. The irony of the amount of ridiculous H&S practices schools normally have to have in place re school trips etc prior to this Pamdemic but let’s have a novel pathogen circulating and just wing it. It’s a giant experiment. No schools have gone back fully enough yet (with similar community transmission in Europe) to get data. Autumn Term is a giant experiment 🤦🏽‍♀️

Is it not also societies duty to provide education and wellbeing to our young? Saying that parents just want to wash their hands of their children is outrageous. I love my children with all my heart. I want them to be safe and this includes their mental wellbeing, which being out of school is affecting massively. Most teachers I know get this and just want to get back to it. Because its their vocation and they care about their pupils. Thats the society I want to live in.

I was asking because my HT had the plans in place and had set up links with the WI Hall etc and then was told at very short notice they specifically could not and must use existing resources only.

That sounds really frustrating for everyone. I know at my DDs' school, and have heard from others in our area, it's very much staff putting together multiple plans because things keep being changed at such short notice.

The guidance does feel very much 'sort yourselves out by yourselves, it'll be on you when this fails'. Part of me does feel like parents may be asked to help, but I'm not sure how we can do that. For PPE, I think face shields may be a better option for some groups over masks, but there are a lot of variables to consider.

@Oaktree55

I honestly despair at the lack of societal responsibility in the U.K. it seems to me as long as most parents get their kids off their hands and back to what they incorrectly assume will be normality in the Autumn then it’s fine to wash hands of any wider responsibility towards teachers and the wider community. We should all be questioning how this Government has handled this situation so appalling so as to leave us in a situation with high community transmission and no confidence in a working track and trace. The irony of the amount of ridiculous H&S practices schools normally have to have in place re school trips etc prior to this Pamdemic but let’s have a novel pathogen circulating and just wing it. It’s a giant experiment. No schools have gone back fully enough yet (with similar community transmission in Europe) to get data. Autumn Term is a giant experiment 🤦🏽‍♀️

This. As a former secondary head with quite a lot of experience, I'm amused and exasperated by turns at the 'wing it-ness' of this "guidance".

It's very similar, however, to Johnson's famous "Go out, but don't go out unless you can't avoid it, but try not to go out" speech.

Bubbles in secondary are nonsense - children come in on packed buses in mixed-age groups, they aren't all taught in the same groups from one lesson to the other, move about every hour in tightly-packed corridors and there are not nearly enough toilets in any school for this 'frequent handwashing'.

I do wish people saying "heads and teachers should fundraise/get on with it/be positive" would think for a minute that there are two weeks of term left and the "guidance" for the return of some primary children changed 49 times before the children went back. Heads and their staff have been trying to plan - but the 'guidance' changes by the minute.

The government should be honest about it - they're saying 'Meh, we just want all the children back at school and as we've proved with our wanky approach to Covid 19 so far, we don't really care if it increases infection rates.'

@Barbie222

They're not saying the virus doesn't transmit in schools. They're saying they need schools to open, but to mitigate that we still SD everywhere else.

Im happy to accept the risk personally, but can absolutely see why teachers are taking one for the team here. If you accept that schools are a significant vector, it makes it hard to argue that the sector deserves no additional protection and / or money. That's the issue many people have with #usforthem and others who paint anything other than an exact replica of what came before in schools as an outrage - there's a big hole in their thinking.

Well we don't know the rate of transmission in schools, I just meant they're not saying don't distance because there's no chance of catching it there, they're saying don't distance because it's impossible to. But by distancing where you can, the transmission should remain at a manageable rate (because lets remember the plan was never to eradicate this virus)

If teachers are taking one for the team, so are doctors, nurses, anyone who gets near other people. And yes, ppe, but a doctor with ppe works with people who actually have covid a teacher might not ever teach a child who has it. Much smaller chance of coming into contact with it in the first place.

I am personally not expecting an exact replica, I'm happy with some changes, I just wouldn't be happy with part time, blended learning or anything so restrictive that nobody actually learns anything.

There has to be a balance.

I would argue the sector needs lots more funding and has done for a long time and I'd 100% support it. I don't think us for them has anything against additional government funding. If it enabled their children to get back to school I think they'd be fully on board to be honest!

@VickyEadieofThigh But the guidance is just that right? Guidance? This has gone on since March, planning for the next year should have begun then. Its similar with dentists - NHS complaining they dont have PPE and cant open etc (whilst being paid for not opening) yet private dentists are open having sourced PPE and gotten ready! Id lay money on Private schools opening in September fully.

Maybe then the alternative is that teachers work part time or get furloughed and all our kids just do one day a week. Would some teachers be ok with being furloughed do you think? Losing some salary like millions of others have had to? Or lose their job if they dont work? Again, like millions of others? Many millions have had to make the choice - risk their health or lose their jobs...why are teachers different?

So the argument is, we have to do without social distancing because we're essential and take one for the team? And we can mitigate this by continuing to take precautions elsewhere? Alright then. Shut the pubs back up, stop holidays, and close non-essential shops. If there is less chance of children being infected, then there is less chance of us teachers getting ill.

Not doing that, though, are we? So why are we expected to take one for the team, exactly?

It's going to be an interesting few months. Already some secondary HTs are saying that the proposal is impossible and part time will be the way they are going to go. Makes sense to me.

a doctor with ppe works with people who actually have covid - really, is that all doctors do now work with people with Covid? I've had a blood test recently and the nurse had ppe, she wasn't working with people diagnosed with Covid. Doctors I am friends with are carrying on their normal specialism with social distancing and PPE, they also aren't working with people with Covid. While it is certainly the case that medical staff work with people confirmed with the disease, all medical staff can have PPE not just the ones on the Covid wards.

NHS complaining they dont have PPE and cant open etc (whilst being paid for not opening) yet private dentists are open having sourced PPE and gotten ready! Id lay money on Private schools opening in September fully.

It boils down to money though.

My sister is a private dentist and in order to open fully with the correct provisions in place-she has had to take out a massive bank loan. It’s terrifying.

If NHS dentists (and LEA schools) don’t have the authority to do that, you can’t just blame them for not having a ‘can do’ attitude which is what seems to be going on.

Alright then. Shut the pubs back up, stop holidays, and close non-essential shops. If there is less chance of children being infected, then there is less chance of us teachers getting ill

Fine by me!

Not doing that, though, are we? So why are we expected to take one for the team, exactly?

Er because children need an education? Or do you think they don't?

Look on the bright side. At least there won't be any bitching over who got to play Mary in the nativity this year.

@nellodee

So the argument is, we have to do without social distancing because we're essential and take one for the team? And we can mitigate this by continuing to take precautions elsewhere? Alright then. Shut the pubs back up, stop holidays, and close non-essential shops. If there is less chance of children being infected, then there is less chance of us teachers getting ill.

Not doing that, though, are we? So why are we expected to take one for the team, exactly?

This x 1000

What team are teachers supposed to be taking one for, exactly? Teachers have learnt on here time and time again in recent months that they are held in contempt by many and have a piss-easy job. Does that motivate anyone to make a sacrifice for those people?

@Messageinateacup

a doctor with ppe works with people who actually have covid - really, is that all doctors do now work with people with Covid? I've had a blood test recently and the nurse had ppe, she wasn't working with people diagnosed with Covid. Doctors I am friends with are carrying on their normal specialism with social distancing and PPE, they also aren't working with people with Covid. While it is certainly the case that medical staff work with people confirmed with the disease, all medical staff can have PPE not just the ones on the Covid wards.

Christ, that's clearly not what I meant.

Like I've said several times why shouldn't teachers wear Ppe if they want to?

I don't have a problem with it so I'm not sure why you're fussing about it at me?

I am a PPA teacher in a large primary school, usually teaching 4 different year groups for half a day each. What will happen to my role?

@drownininplaymobil

I am a PPA teacher in a large primary school, usually teaching 4 different year groups for half a day each. What will happen to my role?

Crack on as normal and wash your hands, according to the guidance.

Maybe then the alternative is that teachers work part time or get furloughed and all our kids just do one day a week. Would some teachers be ok with being furloughed do you think? Losing some salary like millions of others have had to? Or lose their job if they dont work? Again, like millions of others? Many millions have had to make the choice - risk their health or lose their jobs...why are teachers different?

It is this kind of attitude and comment that makes me want to scream! Where has anyone on here said we don't want to go back? All my colleagues are desperate to be back doing our jobs in a classroom rather than at the dining table at home. I want my own kids back.
But. We deserve more than this useless so called guidance. We need someone who is getting paid a fortune to think of these things, to come up with a plan. A plan that keeps everyone as safe as possible given the circumstances. We know there is a risk! But we want that reduced by workable solutions!

Didn't three guidance say teachers aren't at any greater risk than any other profession?

How do they know?
Teaching staff are currently in much smaller groups, often with some form of SDing still possible.
In March lots of schools were having to close before the 23rd due to staffing issues due to staff and their families having symptoms.

No one will really know if they are or aren't until schools are back with full classes.

But its not really useful to base the risks of school staff on what is happening right now really, as it is a much different situation in schools than it will be.

My suggestion for secondary is, Y11, Y13 in full time. Other years in on a 2 week rota. Students to be provided with work on the off week based on what they have done on the on week. The little bit of extra wiggle room would allow for social distancing. PPE should absolutely be permitted.

I'm not unwilling to work. I don't feel children should be without an education, but I agree with Messageinateacup, I am not feeling particularly team spirited right about now. Funny that.

And yes, I know that covid has long term effects for some individuals, but again that is a minority.

Can you link to the data or peer reviewed study on this, only I can't find it and would be interested to read it.

I reply to your post not what you "mean" and I don't keep a list of every other post you've made in my head!
I am glad you are not against it, but unfortunately staff will not be able to wear it unless they gain approval. And just one or two in a mask won't make a significant difference, we should all be in them and older students too.

They're saying they need schools to open, but to mitigate that we still SD everywhere else.

Hmm, so we are relying on everyone elsewhere adhering to the social distancing guidelines. That should go well.

The year bubbles in secondary is bollocks, utter tripe. What about siblings?
So all the bubbles are essentially mixed anyway. Thats before you've moved to a science lab and used equipment, or PE or even sat at the same maths desk as someone else who is from another bubble.

They clearly have no way of implementing this for secondary so its just business as usual.

I was asking because my HT had the plans in place and had set up links with the WI Hall etc and then was told at very short notice they specifically could not and must use existing resources only.

This issue is causing massive frustration locally here on two fronts.

We have a new high school building that was due to open at Easter. It was built on the playground and playing fields. The old school building (perfectly find, just old fashioned and too small) is still standing. It's an old layout with 3 buildings stemming from when boys, girls and seniors were taught in different buildings. Each building has a kitchen and hall where lunches could be had (1 in the canteen and 2 have been used as common rooms/exam halls). It's basically extra space that could be used to keep year groups entirely separate. Has the demolition, which is already 18 months behind schedule, in the summer holidays been postponed - nope.

One of the primary schools has a community centre on it's grounds. It's a large centre with 8 rooms. It won't be open for groups and clubs for a fair while yet. It's within the same permiter fence as the school. Are the school allowed to use it? - nope.

There's just no joined up thinking