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Schools guidance released

794 replies

Orangeblossom78 · 02/07/2020 10:48

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53253722

No dropping of subjects at GCSE then. Posting for info

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
havefunpeleton · 02/07/2020 14:45

@TrustTheGeneGenie yes. ONS confirms teaching not high risk group

palacegirl77 · 02/07/2020 14:45

@netflixismysidehustle

Palacegir- pointing out the problematic bits of the guidance is not the same as a negative attitude.

If the government really cared they would be giving the schools money to clean or sourcing bigger venues (say the local theatres) for schools.

Are you fundraising for your pta? Have you offered to buy big bottles of hand sanitiser for your classroom? Are you aware how tight school budgets were pre Covid?

Yeah I think it was one of the first posts that asked if teachers would have cover for their time off for PPA - maybe instead of that they should be asking if overtime would be paid for if thats what it takes? Im pretty sure nurses on the covid ward werent asking about lunchbreaks and time off during the peak.

And yes, actually my company has donated 30 large bottles of sanitiser to school, along with disposable masks, gloves and visors for when doing first aid (we own a dental lab). Id also be happy to look at crowd funding or trying to get funding from e.g. supermarkets if thats what was needed. I am more than happy to help!

JesmondDene · 02/07/2020 14:47

All schools can say and do say is "we will try our best".
Risk assessments are in place and guide arrangements. This is going to be more difficult practically in the winter, with less use of outdoor and less of the much needed ventilation. Someone suggested marquees, some of the schools I work with have done this. It maybe ok in September, but not appropriate throughout the winter.
Children will be back to more contact with other children and more adults, PPA teachers, sports coaches moving between schools, supply.

Parents will be inconvenienced around staggered starts having to transport or walk/ride with their own children (not as pleasant in the winter) and be available for children to be sent home if ill. Before and after school care can go ahead, but may be limited, as with holiday care. Staff training days will still require closure as staff legally must be trained in at least the latest 'Keeping Children Safe in Education' policies.

All we can do is try it. If the virus rates increase because the arrangements the government have put in place are not sufficient then schools/classes/year groups will close again.

Difficult for parents concerned for their own child's safety, when attendance will be mandatory (unless HE).

Lostmyshityear9 · 02/07/2020 14:50

Didn't three guidance say teachers aren't at any greater risk than any other profession?

A good point. But based on the fact that most teachers haven't been in school for the whole of the lockdown period with classrooms full of students, it's not really a reliable statistic as it stands. Some teachers have been in full time but many haven't been in at all. Most schools I am aware of have had people in on rotas - so maybe once a week or less. Since June 1st teaching has taken place in strict bubbles - teachers are not mixing in staff rooms and staggered starts help. No real experience of how things might be for secondary teachers who have been in contact in low numbers with very few students on the whole.

MoreW1ne · 02/07/2020 14:52

Ludicrous guidance for secondaries. I get every little helps but what is the point of having separate 280 kid bubbles for year groups. It's just going to piss parents off when we shorten the teaching time of the day to have all these staggered starts/finishes and means a sibling might have to wait around off site for a while as they start/finish later etc. GCSEs are obviously going to be affected as they'll be less hours in the day to teach. So either everyone loses out a little or a school drops teaching hours for year 7. Again, more differences for parents to argue about between schools.

It putting a lot of completely unnecessary pressure on schools to plan and then take the criticisms where parents don't appreciate/understand the challenges that brings and the reality of their situation.

If you're going to scrap social distancing then fine, but just be honest about it and do away with the smoke and mirrors.

Bollss · 02/07/2020 14:52

@Lostmyshityear9

Didn't three guidance say teachers aren't at any greater risk than any other profession?

A good point. But based on the fact that most teachers haven't been in school for the whole of the lockdown period with classrooms full of students, it's not really a reliable statistic as it stands. Some teachers have been in full time but many haven't been in at all. Most schools I am aware of have had people in on rotas - so maybe once a week or less. Since June 1st teaching has taken place in strict bubbles - teachers are not mixing in staff rooms and staggered starts help. No real experience of how things might be for secondary teachers who have been in contact in low numbers with very few students on the whole.

They were at school in march when it was rife..... Maybe the data comes from then?

Also teachers have still been in with potentially the most risky children who's parents come into contact with covid patients every single day.... So.... I dunno. I tend to believe it.

I don't know how secondary will make this work, admittedly.

flumposie · 02/07/2020 14:54

Schools will try their best. But already the school that I teach at has the obstacle that we share a joint sixth form and buses with a school across the road. Do we create a bubble of 2000 plus ? The corridors at my school are hideous on a normal day.

mumwon · 02/07/2020 14:54

just out of interest - (if anyone knows/has a clue) - will the dc be eating in their classroom (cleaning!) who will be supervising them? Or if staggered in dining room (who will be doing extra cleaning?) some dc take a long time to eat-

& playtime at lunch etc - will they stagger that?
Wont this mean that primary schools (many of whom have serious funding issues & have had to get rid of teaching assistants) will have to find extra money to pay dinner ladies et al to do this extended time periods unless teacher are not allowed to have lunch? &who is going to do (& be paid for if its extra staff) all this cleaning? & provide all this extra soap etc - many schools are on the breadline & may I direct this to some pp! - not all schools are in areas where the parents can donate money to schools - ie high deprivation areas = no money & even less for many at the moment.
Another point - some parents WILL send in dc with a sniffle - it goes round class - what happens than? Can teacher ring up & say come & get your dc now? The symptoms dc might have will mimic colds etc they always have which suggests that classes will go into multiple lock downs
& by the way. its been announced that childminders et al can take all their mixed aged mixed families again - yep bubbles sound effective
there was an interview this am with primary & senior teacher & one thing they stated: classrooms in the UK are much smaller & more densely packed than Europe -
I can see problems arising & more schools having money problems & by the way - canvas shelters wont be suitable for extra classrooms in autumn & as pp stated other public buildings & shifting dc to them is problematic on more levels than (even Grin) I can say

Cattermole · 02/07/2020 14:54

@Barbie222 thank you for that, I hadn't realised this week's ONS report was out!
Headline (save people looking) is that the number is relatively stable over the last week's data, so that's actually quite positive.
So the schools thing says - 40 incidents were from educational settings where 18 had at least one linked case that tested positive for SARS-CoV-2
Does that mean it's 40 incidents that have tested positive, or 40 incidents that have been reported as a potential outbreak but of those 40, 18 have come back with a positive test?

Sorry, asking lots of questions again...

Barbie222 · 02/07/2020 14:56

@Cattermole it means that there were 40 incidents and so far 18 with positive covid tests. Sometimes there is a gap between test and result so there are likely a few more "pending " cases.

Cattermole · 02/07/2020 14:57

Thank you! That doesn't seem like a lot to me - is that right, do you think? or are there more (like a lot more) flying under the radar?

JesmondDene · 02/07/2020 14:58

More
* 'shorten the teaching time of the day to have all these staggered starts/finishes*'
The guidance says you can't shorten the teaching time - not quite sure how that works though, so much for 1265 contracted hours!

ListeningQuietly · 02/07/2020 14:58

COVID INFECTION RATES
Nobody knows
4.7 million tests have not been linked to demographic data
there is no testing programme
we have no idea how long immunity lasts
we have no idea how many people are naturally immune
we have no idea how long a vaccine will last
none of the predicted peaks have happened
there is no evidence of people catching covid from door handles

so lets just get back to school and to work taking sensible precautions

  • handwashing
  • masks in corridors and assembly
and be ready for short sharp very localised lockdowns if needs be

The next pandemic might be much much worse
lets learn some sensible lessons now

Barbie222 · 02/07/2020 15:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Barbie222 · 02/07/2020 15:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Barbie222 · 02/07/2020 15:01

The ONS put out this infographic a little while ago - it shows the relative risk by profession, in terms of "need to be in close contact to do your job" x "likelihood of coming into contact with a positive case". Since this was produced we now know that there are additional risks with spending a long period of time with a group indoors, so that's not factored in. Primary teaching is the yellow circle, and some other professions are highlighted in green for context.

Schools guidance released
netflixismysidehustle · 02/07/2020 15:03

I am more than happy to help!

I think parents are going to have to fundraise for schools or be encouraged to buy stuff for them in the same way that we helped the NHS. Instead of bring a bottle for the Christmas fair we could have bring a box of tissues or cleaning fluid or something Sad

Barbie222 · 02/07/2020 15:05

Took ages to post! I will report all those duplicated posts. @Cattermole I think the school increase is quite small but significant in the context of only a few years going back under limited conditions. It shows that SAGE were right to link school openings with community transmission, despite the narrative that "schools don't spread".

MoreW1ne · 02/07/2020 15:05

Jesmond That's the issue...the guidance says that. Just guidance.
In reality unless a school has a surplus of teachers (really?) or extra money for cover staff (again, not likely!) then time is getting cut somewhere if schools implement staggering.

1256 is the limit. Sure you could cut meetings out. No time to discuss/plan - no sarcasm needed here for how well that would end up going for children if we haven't even got time to discuss/plan for them...

Hence, pissed off parents again as they'll feel they're not getting the headline of every kid back to normal lessons full time.

Lostmyshityear9 · 02/07/2020 15:06

They were at school in march when it was rife

Teachers were dropping like flies from mid-March. Some schools closed before the actual closing date because they didn't have staff and couldn't get supply. God knows how supply staff are going to be managed in this mess but they will be needed more than ever.

It is very difficult. I think all of us who work in schools know what has been released today feels something of a recipe for disaster. Don't get me wrong, I don't have any answers and I absolutely understand the need to get back to school. If we get this wrong, many more people will lose their lives - and some of those will be teachers. The refusal to afford us even the basic mask/visor PPE and providing no budget for extra cleaning, hand santiziers and soap is a smack in the face for a profession that does want to do it's part and do it's part properly and safely. We can pick the virus up anywhere at any time - we know that. But let's not have a situation where we start dying in high numbers and where members of our communities also start to suffer because we didn't consider alternatives. A 2 week, 1in/1out of school timetable even for, say years 7 to 9 would make a massive difference to the numbers in schools, make infection movement more difficult, would provide some staff with work whilst being able to shield, make closures happen less frequently etc. etc. Letting staff who want to use PPE of their choosing if they provide it, letting children who want to use masks use them would also help.

ListeningQuietly · 02/07/2020 15:07

What about schools with no outside space to put up marquees
with narrow corridors and steep stairwells
in built up areas
where drop off is already a nightmare because of security issues
how will they cope ?
Thomas' Battersea for example

JesmondDene · 02/07/2020 15:11

more At the very time when planning for learning, based on assessment and evaluation of every child; to successfully identifying gaps; adapt learning to address the gaps, teachers are expected to teach a longer day. (Oh and clean the toiletsConfused)

StaffAssociationRepresentative · 02/07/2020 15:14

Schools employ the minimum number of teachers they can get away with.

Most schools (secondary) can cope when there are up to five teachers off due to training, trips or illness. More than that and it gets tricky. At that stage we may combine classes and teach 60/90 students in the school hall. (dont laugh, I have been in that position in the past and no learning actually happens but at least the students are contained in one place)

But what happens when say 15% of the teaching staff are off - then the school will have to close for a period of time. Yes that does happen when there is a severe outbreak of norovirus (been there and done that as well)

So yes schools maybe back but it will not really be old normal but at least it is something.

DomDoesWotHeWants · 02/07/2020 15:15

@Juststopswimming

Any other predictions from your crystal ball you would like to share? Perhaps you could elaborate on when the much-vaunted second spike will be hitting us?

You seem to be suffering from hallucinations, I have never predicted a second spike. But I do predict the unions will not put up with this shit.

Bollss · 02/07/2020 15:18

[quote DomDoesWotHeWants]@Juststopswimming

Any other predictions from your crystal ball you would like to share? Perhaps you could elaborate on when the much-vaunted second spike will be hitting us?

You seem to be suffering from hallucinations, I have never predicted a second spike. But I do predict the unions will not put up with this shit.[/quote]
The unions don't always get their own way though you know?

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