Schools guidance released

[Orangeblossom78]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53253722

No dropping of subjects at GCSE then. Posting for info

Hashtag
Sanitizer is highly flammable.
Rather more of an issue with 1500 teenagers around IMHO

Until the government comes up with ideas that in any way reflect the reality of secondary schools and rural areas
its all kite flying

I've just paid £9 for 500ml. I think that's quite expensive.

It's not that price if bought in bulk. A lot of children will have it anyway. Many were taking it into schools before they closed down and that was when it was hard to get.

No one is saying that it is, just that it is very likely to happen.

But what is the point of saying that it will happen. Everybody knows things are going to be ideal for a while. That doesn't mean schools shouldn't open or that there should be no attempt to try and reduce infections when they are open.

yeah, you're right; those are insurmountable problems
I wasn't thinking straight, let's keep the schools shut forever

Nope, not insurmountable at all but also not solveable by schools alone. Cost for example can't be borne by schools - even those with amazing can do attitudes. How many classrooms in an average secondary school? 50 at least X £30/bottle that's £1500 + holders. How long will a litre bottle last, being used by 150 students each day? That's a lot of money for schools to find when most have an embargo on printing and buying soap in order to cut deficit budgets.

Sanitizer is highly flammable.
Rather more of an issue with 1500 teenagers around IMHO

So it will have to be in dispensers on the wall. It's not a good reason for it not to be available particularly when many teenagers will be carrying it around now anyway. My children's primary school used to use it a decade ago during the swine flu pandemic without incident. Many schools across the world that have opened are using it without incident.

Our school trust said they had spent £4000 on hand sanitiser already. It seems to be Ok for hospitals for the public so not sure why it couldn't in schools

And the flammable thing was on the BBC who were told that was wrong, as well

But what is the point of saying that it will happen. Everybody knows things are going to be ideal for a while. That doesn't mean schools shouldn't open or that there should be no attempt to try and reduce infections when they are open.

But schools are still subject to normal legislation - Health and Safety At Work, COSHH, health and safety of pupils. You can't just forget that because it's inconvenient. So, yes, hand sanitizer overcomes some of the practicalities of no access to hand washing facilities but does bring its own difficulties, which also have to be mitigated. So, I'd imagine you need lockable dispensers for the hand gel,to stop bottles from being stolen.

Nope, not insurmountable at all but also not solveable by schools alone. Cost for example can't be borne by schools - even those with amazing can do attitudes. How many classrooms in an average secondary school? 50 at least X £30/bottle that's £1500 + holders. How long will a litre bottle last, being used by 150 students each day? That's a lot of money for schools to find when most have an embargo on printing and buying soap in order to cut deficit budgets.

I agree that school should be given extra resources to deal with the extra costs of cleaning and sanitising but I don't think it costs £30 a bottle. It's not expensive if bought in bulk.

You could have the ones on the wall like they have in hospitals, fixed on
and people could send their kids in with some if they were worried too

And the flammable thing was on the BBC who were told that was wrong, as well
NOT TRUE - watch this

It's ridiculous that there is no money being given to schools to fund hand sanitizer

Some of these schools have budgets so tight teachers and parents are already funding essentials for kids

Extra cleaning and santizers have to be paid for by someone, ultimately it's going to be the kids because they'll be the ones having even more essentials cut

Dh in manufacturing and the workers there seem to manage with hand gel dispensers, as do the workers in the supermarkets, not sure why such things seem unsurmountable in schools for the staff there.

They seem to cope with not ingesting it or it not setting them on fire, and slipping on it etc

I agree that school should be given extra resources to deal with the extra costs of cleaning and sanitising but I don't think it costs £30 a bottle. It's not expensive if bought in bulk.

I'm just going by costs on line for 1 litre bottles.

Op above says their school trust has already spent £4000, that's money that many schools just won't have. We were setting deficit budgets at the school I was governor at. We cut every expenditure to the bone - no printing or photocopying, even supplies like soap and toilet paper were cut as much as we could. Government should fund this and ensure adequate supply

@Orangeblossom78

Dh in manufacturing and the workers there seem to manage with hand gel dispensers, as do the workers in the supermarkets, not sure why such things seem unsurmountable in schools for the staff there.

They seem to cope with not ingesting it or it not setting them on fire, and slipping on it etc

Presumably your dh workplace, and supermarkets, aren't staffed by 11 - 16 year olds. They also likely don't need a letter from their mum excusing them from pe either?

But schools are still subject to normal legislation - Health and Safety At Work, COSHH, health and safety of pupils. You can't just forget that because it's inconvenient.

You don't need to forget that. Health and safety at work is not going to state that schools can't have hand sanitiser at the moment. If it does state that it will be changed.

So, yes, hand sanitizer overcomes some of the practicalities of no access to hand washing facilities but does bring its own difficulties, which also have to be mitigated. So, I'd imagine you need lockable dispensers for the hand gel,to stop bottles from being stolen.

Yes, there will be difficulties which will have to be mitigated. This has happened in every other workplace (not just with sanitiser) and schools will be no different. Things are not ideal but that doesn't mean the problems are insurmountable.

I'm just going by costs on line for 1 litre bottles.

Yes but there's a lot of profiteering online. It's a lot cheaper than that.

Op above says their school trust has already spent £4000, that's money that many schools just won't have. We were setting deficit budgets at the school I was governor at. We cut every expenditure to the bone - no printing or photocopying, even supplies like soap and toilet paper were cut as much as we could. Government should fund this and ensure adequate supply

I agree they should fund it and other extra costs related to Covid.

@Orangeblossom78

Dh in manufacturing and the workers there seem to manage with hand gel dispensers, as do the workers in the supermarkets, not sure why such things seem unsurmountable in schools for the staff there.

They seem to cope with not ingesting it or it not setting them on fire, and slipping on it etc

I presume they don't block toilets, flood sinks, set off fire alarms or commit numerous other destructive and irritating acts that teenagers are known to do?

The bigger issue is getting the kids to and from the schools

• staggered start times will not happen
• bubbles will not hapen
• social distancing on travel will not happen

Then on providing a curriculum that does not fail most pupils

• not everybody does the same subjects
• not everybody works at the same level

Things are not ideal but that doesn't mean the problems are insurmountable.

I didn't say they were insurmountable. I said some of these problems can't be solved by individual schools - funding hand sanitizer or changing health and safety legislation for example (the suggestion of which I find worrying. If something is somewhat dangerous you don't make it safe by changing the law do you?)

I was assuming the staff would be the main users of the hand gel given they are more at risk than young people.

But young people should be capable of using hand gel or hand washing surely.

I used to manage with nursery children and hand washing.

But young people should be capable of using hand gel or hand washing surely.
Considering 85% of men at Heathrow were observed not washing their hands after a piss
I would not bet on it

@Orangeblossom78

I was assuming the staff would be the main users of the hand gel given they are more at risk than young people.

But young people should be capable of using hand gel or hand washing surely.

But the government rules have been quoted on here.

Schools must make sure that students wash their hands on arrival, after every break and every time they change rooms - that's what prompted the hand gel suggestion. Clearly schools can't get 1000 students to wash their hands on arrival, at break times and especially at every lesson change can they?

I'd highly recommend not engaging with Umbrella who, as usual, is loving baiting you all. The minute she mentioned national strategies the other day, is became clear that she is a long standing poster who name changes frequently and appears, sneering, on every education thread like this making the same unpleasant points regarding the teaching profession. She has been doing it for years - just don't bother.

@Orangeblossom78

I was assuming the staff would be the main users of the hand gel given they are more at risk than young people.

But young people should be capable of using hand gel or hand washing surely.

The suggestion of hand gel outside each classroom was proposed as a solution to the children being unable to wash their hands every time the enter a new room. Why would you assume it was just for the adults?