Schools guidance released

[Orangeblossom78]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53253722

No dropping of subjects at GCSE then. Posting for info

Young kids cough and sneeze all the time though. There will be huge amounts of absence if every child is kept off for a cold.

There won't be huge amounts of absence with colds as if measures are taken to reduce coronavirus infection the risk of other infections will be massively reduced. The reason they usually spread so much is because people go to school and work with them.

If teachers don't want to go back to work they should resign. Our children will progress far better in large classes with resilient teachers than the whiney eeyores that bray on here about an imagined excessive risk to teachers

From a resignation point of view, I would be careful what you wish for. If I go (and I can financially afford to), my department will be staffed by an NQT and 3 supply teachers (assuming supply can be found - shortage subject) in September. We are not the only department in school in that situation - quite a few early retirements happened and others have resigned for various reasons, including covid. Popular school, not hard to work in compared with some. We have no been able to recruit to all positions now vacant, I believe.

As for whiney and without resilience, you really have no idea what we are facing. There will be teacher and school staff deaths as a result of this.

Big classes? Again, be careful what you wish for. They have set it up with year group bubbles so children can be taught in groups of 240 if needs be in halls, sports halls, theatre spaces. That will do wonders for keeping the R rate down, don't it?

And you do realise that every teenager that gets infected as a result of interactions in school will walk it out into the community at the end of the day? It could be your family that faces long-term issues as a result.

It’s a pretty poor achievement on the part of the teaching unions to have gone up against this government on CV policy and lost the PR battle. Whatever members wanted them to achieve they haven’t done it. In fact any influence and changes the unions could have achieved have been squandered.

This is a terribly incompetent government by any measure. But they seem to have a knack of out playing and outwitting this type of opposition when it comes to public opinion. Brexit being the previous other example. The opposition became so focused on winning parliamentary battles they didn’t see the war being lost with the public.

Sadly I think the teaching unions have fallen into what was an obvious trap. They became too focused on an issue by issue attack and have mistaken media attention for public support. It’s hard to know what they want to achieve other than to block government policy.

The government have on the other hand stuck to a simple message, get schools open. Which they believe the public want. In that they are right. The unions don’t see that they are opposing that simple message.

theduchess agree entirely with your excellent post.

Cumming's divide and distract strategies are still working on the general population seemingly.

What’s your solution then? How on earth do we afford to quarantine the country until this virus is eradicated?

Did you read my post? The whole point was that if we all wear masks then we're much less likely to need to go into quarantine. ALL the successful countries (with more flourishing economies) are doing this. There's lots of research that suggests upward of 80% of population wearing masks out in public is more effective than lockdown in terms of controlling virus. This government is heading us for another lockdown (already happened in Leicester) by their apparent inability to understand the basics of infection control.

There's lots of research that suggests upward of 80% of population wearing masks out in public is more effective than lockdown in terms of controlling virus. This government is heading us for another lockdown (already happened in Leicester) by their apparent inability to understand the basics of infection control.

Exactly.

It’s a pretty poor achievement on the part of the teaching unions to have gone up against this government on CV policy and lost the PR battle. Whatever members wanted them to achieve they haven’t done it. In fact any influence and changes the unions could have achieved have been squandered. This is a terribly incompetent government by any measure. But they seem to have a knack of out playing and outwitting this type of opposition when it comes to public opinion. Brexit being the previous other example. The opposition became so focused on winning parliamentary battles they didn’t see the war being lost with the public. Sadly I think the teaching unions have fallen into what was an obvious trap. They became too focused on an issue by issue attack and have mistaken media attention for public support. It’s hard to know what they want to achieve other than to block government policy. The government have on the other hand stuck to a simple message, get schools open. Which they believe the public want. In that they are right. The unions don’t see that they are opposing that simple message.

How shit are the teaching unions.

This is more like it:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/30/boris-johnson-teaching-unions-closed-schools-teachers-children

@LemonTT

It’s a pretty poor achievement on the part of the teaching unions to have gone up against this government on CV policy and lost the PR battle. Whatever members wanted them to achieve they haven’t done it. In fact any influence and changes the unions could have achieved have been squandered.

This is a terribly incompetent government by any measure. But they seem to have a knack of out playing and outwitting this type of opposition when it comes to public opinion. Brexit being the previous other example. The opposition became so focused on winning parliamentary battles they didn’t see the war being lost with the public.

Sadly I think the teaching unions have fallen into what was an obvious trap. They became too focused on an issue by issue attack and have mistaken media attention for public support. It’s hard to know what they want to achieve other than to block government policy.

The government have on the other hand stuck to a simple message, get schools open. Which they believe the public want. In that they are right. The unions don’t see that they are opposing that simple message.

Yes, well, simple messages are what this government excels at. As you said, it worked with Brexit as well but it doesn't mean that they actually achieve the things stated in the messages. Surely there has to come a point when people realise that. I'm not holding my breath though; the country seems to have been overtaken by cheap populism and any resistance just entrenches people deeper in their views.

Attitudes to the unions in this country have developed over years and years - it's not as if they entered this crisis with a clean slate. Every time there was ever a strike, which there hasn't been for years, the media would be filled up with parents complaining they had to take a day's leave. One of the worst offenders would be the so-called 'lefty' BBC.We saw it this time round with that lovely Daily Mail front page a few weeks ago and the rest of the union/teacher-bashing that goes on in the media. What a contrast to Nicola Sturgeon who actually said during one of her briefings that people should consult their unions if they don't feel safe at work. Why can't we have this grown-up attitude instead of the divisiveness that this government peddles? Johnson constantly shouting at Keir Starmer that he is controlled by the unions when the education unions aren't even affiliated.

The unions have consistently said that they want students back in school, but it must be done safely, and they have clearly put forward some measures that would go towards achieving that. If 'back when safe' is too complex a message for people to understand, well...I despair.

The unions have consistently said that they want students back in school, but it must be done safely, and they have clearly put forward some measures that would go towards achieving that. If 'back when safe' is too complex a message for people to understand, well...I despair

This.

The government have on the other hand stuck to a simple message, get schools open. Which they believe the public want. In that they are right. The unions don’t see that they are opposing that simple message

LemonTT has drunk the Koolaid.

The use of the word 'Bubbles' is now a nonsense. You only have to have two children in different year groups for your 'bubble' to be hitting the hundreds by one degree of separation.

This is not how it's going to happen in September. This is just a 'Sssshhhh - Stop Panicking everyone, look it's all going back to normal' narrative to get them through the summer without too much pressure.

They will be 'tweaking' this as they 'follow the science' for the next two months - and realise that it is completely and utterly unworkable.

I am DESPERATE for mine to go back to school - especially DD who is starting year 11/GCSE year but this is claptrap.

I am also very concerned that they are not rethinking GCSE plans more carefully.

The thing is @LemonTT a three-word slogan isn't a plan. It's a good way of avoiding thinking and reasoning though, which is why lots of people really like slogans, and voting for people who say slogans. It means you don't have to do the hard thinking bit of life.

The plan is as good as we're going to get without any extra money, though.

I would be satisfied and reassured with:
1. PPE and teens and adults wearing masks.
2, A mix of remote and in school learning until after the winter. This would increase workload but also increase safety.

Seems sensible.

What we also forget is a really good track and trace system will be the key. South Korea have kept numbers low and have not closed schools. Many other countries have also done this - and it’s not massive social distancing at schools it is a very effective testing and tracing programme. That means for schools - being super ‘on top’ of any cases and their contacts, and closing down schools or year groups immediately and testing everyone. It is not ‘waiting’ for two cases.

UK haven’t got a good track and trace and I feel actual rage every time I see the Health Minister saying we do - his insistence that everything is great is so dangerous in itself - I’d be happier if he was honest but I think he believes it truly is all fine - when in fact it’s pretty rubbish. And not only that, they aren’t even giving the figures and data to localities so that they can close down. Leicester was not given the actual figures and they were not publicly available.

See this on twitter for lack of information. twitter.com/crunchymoose/status/1277996586585513985?s=21

It is fustrating. If we had this better then I for one would be much happier with less infection control within schools. I still wouldn’t throw it out of the window though! Especially with flu season.

Agreed, Social . It's their mismanagement that has brought us to this. They even said when introducing their road-map that having the 'world beating' track and trace system in place would be one of the factors that would enable them to reopen schools. When it became clear we wouldn't ever have that because Google or because Apple or because cherry on the cake it was dropped and now we're at 'Oh, just go back and hope for the best,' and anyone who raises an objection is blocking kids from going back.

Oh, just go back and hope for the best,'

And don't forget stay alert

@mrpumblechook

Young kids cough and sneeze all the time though. There will be huge amounts of absence if every child is kept off for a cold.

There won't be huge amounts of absence with colds as if measures are taken to reduce coronavirus infection the risk of other infections will be massively reduced. The reason they usually spread so much is because people go to school and work with them.

The thing is, the schools aren't really going to. The children will absentmindedly wash their hands when asked, but other than that, is there realistically any infection control going on? Most schools don't have the space to separate desks etc. and the guidance gives them a carve out to decide what's appropriate for them, according to my reading.

Is there realistically any infection control going on?

I don’t think so. The only really compulsory bit I can see is this:

“Schools must ensure that pupils clean their hands regularly, including when they arrive at school, when they return from breaks, when they change rooms and before and after eating.”

And I don’t believe that will happen in my school.

Everything else has the caveat “where practicable” or “as far as possible”, and it’s clearly not practicable or possible.

I didn’t say Government policy was a plan or solution or that it was right. My point is that the teaching unions have lost the PR battle and appear out of step and deaf to public opinion. That’s nothing to do with being right. It’s about having the wrong strategy. See brexit referendum and 2019 election outcome for why that matters.

LemonTT

Schools, teachers and the unions were/are never going to win any PR battles in England.

The politicians, media, social media and those with a chip on their shoulder have loaded the scales that much that education is never going to win.

The thing is, the schools aren't really going to. The children will absentmindedly wash their hands when asked, but other than that, is there realistically any infection control going on? Most schools don't have the space to separate desks etc. and the guidance gives them a carve out to decide what's appropriate for them, according to my reading.

Just a change in sickness absence policy would make a huge difference. If children are no longer in school coughing and sneezing then they won't be passing colds onto other children. Unlike Covid 19, colds aren't usually very infectious before children have symptoms.

I absolutely know the unions are never going to win that battle. But why did they try? Although interventions by local politicians haven’t helped the cause. They could have said no to the interviews. Left the government to spin in the wind.

In May it was really fucking obvious they were being led into a trap that would mean a hard reopening in September. And here we are.

Are they going to rewrite a sense policy and not send out shitty letters if attendance is less than 95%?
I know it would be socially responsible to not send in a child with a sore throat but if they are monitoring attendance then many would risk sending their child in and have school send them home so they get marked in at morning register.

I wonder how much astro-turfing goes on here at Mumsnet. Its strange that we are saying the battle is currently "Get schools open" v "Open when safe" when there has been such a concerted attack on the word "safe" on Mumsnet in the past week or so.

Schools must ensure that pupils clean their hands regularly, including when they arrive at school, when they return from breaks, when they change rooms and before and after eating.

Just from this government have shown that they've got no idea about schools or about how to best control risk of Covid infection within schools.

How on earth are secondary schools going to ensure 1000 students wash their hands on arrival, after breaks, when they change rooms and before and after eating?

So, according to government rules, an entire secondary school has to wash their hands at lesson change? How????

How on earth are secondary schools going to ensure 1000 students wash their hands on arrival, after breaks, when they change rooms and before and after eating?

Presumably alcohol gel can be used to clean hands. It doesn't necessarily mean they have to go to the toilet. Absence policies also need to change and children should be sent home if they do cough and sneeze unless they have evidence that is not Covid. In secondary schools it would help if children wore masks in the corridors too. All these things would significantly reduce infection.

children should be sent home if they do cough and sneeze unless they have evidence that is not Covid
HA HA HA HA HA
Have you met teenagers ?