Schools guidance released

[Orangeblossom78]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53253722

No dropping of subjects at GCSE then. Posting for info

Teachers are at no more risk than other jobs.

And Belgium has the highest death rate per capita.

@palacegirl77

Do you know what Id love to see? Some heads/teachers having a can do attitude. How about some ideas being put forward? Fundraising for some marquees or other space? Its the negativity that gets me - there are thousands of people that have had to work WITH people with covid, that are front facing in shops etc/ delivering food and parcels to people up and down the country - theyve got on with it. There has to be more of a can do attitude. Where are the "superheads" what are they coming up with? How about screens for the teachers like they have in tescos, hand sanitiser for all kids on lanyards around their necks, temperature checks on doors, more hand washing stations? Anything? Come on , there MUST be a way through this.

No...you want schools back then why don't YOU start fundraising with your amazing CAN DO attitude. This shouldn't just be put on teachers to sort out. We're all in this together apparently so why don't you and everyone else who constantly mentions 'can do' attitudes actually do something rather than just moaning about bloody teachers.

It's not at all clear what will happen to wrap around care. There's not much point keeping primary kids in class bubbles if you then can't keep them in those bubbles for breakfast and after school clubs. But many parents will struggle without wrap around care.

@Mintychoc1

Teachers are at no more risk than other jobs.

And Belgium has the highest death rate per capita.

I think you've misunderstood our argument? We aren't saying as a profession we are more at risk. We are asking for the same 'covid secure' guidance and us and kids to have PPE like other professions.

Ventilation is key. And prolonged contact in the same area massively increases risk. Coming into the winter months when we can’t ventilate well, is a problem.

I keep seeing posts about kids 'coughing and sneezing' toward the teacher at the front of the class.

Surely to god, no-one will be sending ill children to school? This is the one positive about transmission awareness generally - stay home if you're sick!

I'm an instrumental music teacher in Oz, and we've been back at school for weeks. It's the first time in my 25 year career that I haven't had red-eyed, coughing, ill children come into my room, expecting their lesson. It's brilliant. Invariably at this time of year, I ended up ill, and lost a significant amount of money. I'm casual and don't get paid if I'm too sick to work.

Our guidance states that any child with even mild cold symptoms can not come to school until those symptoms resolve. So there's no problem with 'coughing and sneezing' kids here.

I'm hoping the previously frequently heard on mumsnet sentiment 'dose 'em up with calpol and send 'em in' is well and truly dead.

Teachers are at no more risk than other jobs.

Every other workplace is being made covid secure.

My wife was working from home for a few weeks. On her return the following was done:

Flexi time so that not everyone is in at the same time

Work stations rearranged so everyone is 2m away from each other and not facing each other.

It's a room about the size of my classroom and has 6 people in.

Whenever they walk down the corridor they do it alone, or 2m apart from whoever they're walking with.

They have the ability to wash their hands whenever they want.

She feels safe going to work even though she's clinically vulnerable.

In the same space I have 6x32 kids in one day. About 20cm away from the person next to them and within 2m of 8 other people for an hour at a time unless they're at the corner of the classroom at then it's at least 3.

When I walk down the corridor it's like a mosh pit.

We've been told the way to reduce transmission is distance (not happening), limiting time with people outside your household (not happening) limiting the amounts of different people you see (not happening) and wearing face coverings (not happening). Frequent handwashing isn't happening either (not enough sinks). There's sanitiser on arrival for staff but we can't afford enough for the kids as there's no new money for cleaning. Ventilation is also important but very poor in a lot of classrooms.

The only nod to safety is have the desks facing the front so they're not facing each other. Which means they're all facing me at the front.

We're not saying it's the riskiest job out there. We're asking for some mitigation of risk. I don't think that's unreasonable.

It's not that we don't want the kids back. I'm desperate to go back to 'normal' as I enjoy my job normally. I don't enjoy what it is at the moment because the good bit (the time with the kids) isn't as much of the job as normal. We're not asking for it to be 100% safe as we know that's not possible. We'd just like to feel that something was being done to try and keep us, the kids we teach and the community at large safe.

@skeptile

I keep seeing posts about kids 'coughing and sneezing' toward the teacher at the front of the class.

Surely to god, no-one will be sending ill children to school? This is the one positive about transmission awareness generally - stay home if you're sick!

I'm an instrumental music teacher in Oz, and we've been back at school for weeks. It's the first time in my 25 year career that I haven't had red-eyed, coughing, ill children come into my room, expecting their lesson. It's brilliant. Invariably at this time of year, I ended up ill, and lost a significant amount of money. I'm casual and don't get paid if I'm too sick to work.

Our guidance states that any child with even mild cold symptoms can not come to school until those symptoms resolve. So there's no problem with 'coughing and sneezing' kids here.

I'm hoping the previously frequently heard on mumsnet sentiment 'dose 'em up with calpol and send 'em in' is well and truly dead.

Absolutely.

They are going to have to go back at some point.

Lots of hand washing and cleaning. Social distancing from staff and absolutely no one comes into school ill - all schools now have testing for temperatures and PPE kit to do it. Home they go if they are running a temperature.

Those who do not wish their DC to return to school need to stop moaning about safety and take responsibility for their education. We cannot close the country down. Yes there are risks involved in going to school for the children. Their teachers and any other staff.
I have been on the frontline throughout the pandemic. I had no choice. Alongside the other nurses. Think of all key workers who had no choice. Shop workers on minimum wage have been exposed for months and in the beginning there was very little protection. No gloves masks sanitiser etc. We are now set up for this as best we can.
The world needs to get back to normal. Furlough and business closed is unsustainable. If we dont return to normal soon we are pretty fucked .
It is so hard to watch people saying they dont want to send their kids back but also expecting an education to be provided for them at home.
I home educated 2 of my DC over the years. Once you get your head round it then it's really easy.
Those who dont wish to send their DC to school are entitled to that but get on with educating themselves. We have all got a part to play in this.
Rant over

Those asking for a can do attitude.
You have no idea. None.
If you could see the bloody amazing can do attitude in our school.
We have office staff covering lunches, SLT on the gates. Teachers and TAs wiping down loos. Doors and windows open - kids moaning that they are cold in July! I’m cleaning my desks, buying wipes for iPads etc.
We have no one spare. If one of us goes off (and lots have already had to be tested so off till results) it leaves either the teacher or ta alone with the class all day. No loo break until someone can come and stand in the doorway. We have no money for extra sinks and 2 loos per year group. New building. Govt not offering any money and our parents don’t have any either.
15 kids in my room and we have a metre each.

We have less than half the school in.
But I can’t wear a mask because it might scare them? I should be fundraising for a marquee? I’m fucking knackered. Been working straight through since Feb and I’m scared. Not just for me - but the responsibility of not letting the kids get it or even me giving it to them. Cases in my area on the rise. Kids in and out of each other’s houses from different bubbles. Parents about to go back to the pub on Saturday.
I’m an older teacher and I love the children, love my job- but I’m already on the bloody edge. You can get lost with your fundraising.

Oh and
I completely agree the children need to be at school. I’m in school and I’ll stay in. I don’t have a solution.
But maybe don’t blame it on us.

"I've been working straight through since Feb"
😆😆

Surely to god, no-one will be sending ill children to school? This is the one positive about transmission awareness generally - stay home if you're sick! I'm an instrumental music teacher in Oz. Our guidance states that any child with even mild cold symptoms can not come to school until those symptoms resolve. So there's no problem with 'coughing and sneezing' kids here.

I wish I had confidence this would be the case here. But if we are back to BAU on attendance and fines and "missing 5 minutes of school will blight their entire lives, you feckless parents permitting absenteeism" messaging, people will be sending sick kids in because we're scared not to. That's in addition to the people dosing with Calpol and sending their kids in because they have to get to their jobs and don't have childcare cover or an option for emergency leave.

To illustrate - in normal times the guidance is pretty clear, and for most illnesses if they don't have an actual temperature and they haven't had d&v in the last 48 hours, they have to go in. www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/is-my-child-too-ill-for-school/ Otherwise parents are at risk of sickness absence being recorded as unauthorised.

My DS had what would in normal times be called a nasty chest cold in March, shortly before lockdown. It coincided with the period when self-isolation had just started being mandated for a new continuous cough, but there were no tests available. He was therefore off school for 10 days at which point the school closed its doors anyway. He only had a consistently high temp for the first couple of days. In normal times he would have been in school from day 3, because that's what the NHS guidelines say about coughs and school attendance, and school wouldn't have countenanced him being off for "just a nasty cold". Having him at home, I was able to observe that it was around 2 weeks before my active 6 year old boy was actually in a good state for learning or indeed, doing much more than loll on the sofa. It was a nasty bug and turned into a nasty bout of bronchitis. When I was a kid, we'd have been home in bed with something like that for a while, but the attendance obsession has changed the culture and expectation.

DS's illness ticked the "Covid-19 suspicion" boxes but my guess is that the odds are it was another, common or garden, winter virus though we'll never know. This winter, hopefully there'd be testing available. But assuming what DS had wasn't Covid-19, personally I still wouldn't have wanted to meet Covid-19 while ill or convalescing from it. However, I would bet the house that we won't have any sort of culture change this winter around staying home when you're sick, and we'll all be out there as usual, and our kids will be expected to be out there as usual, merrily spreading our bugs around...

Why's that funny? My DH is the same. He has worked 7am-6pm every 'working' day since lockdown started. He worked at least half of every 'holiday' day through Easter and May half term. He has worked at least a little bit of almost every weekend day too. He always does a fair amount of work in the holidays, but never like this.

Young healthy people have died
very very very few

@cptartapp

ODFOD. You have absolutely no fucking idea.,

Some parents will definitely send ill children to school.

fundraising? How about the government actually fund schools to a level where they can implement proper infection control measures - like - at a minimum - enough sinks, enough soap and hand sanitiser. Finding solutions to allow social distancing. (village halls etc)

I'm sick of this 'we've all just got to get on with it' attitude - you're letting them get away with it. Do you think Eton (where the MPs send their kids) is going to be going with this half arsed approach? Of course not. This is a choice, by government. Standing up for worker rights is not being lazy, it's being responsible as it will prevent further lockdowns.

Nurses and doctors have DIED because of lack of proper PPE - some of them stood up and made it clear they thought it was inadequate. Good for them, that forced the government to actually make some changes. It's pretty clear to me that there are some in the Tory party that would like nothing more than a return to Victorian-like working conditions for the majority (who they see as barely human) while the rich get richer. More and more workers rights are going to be taken away once we leave the EU. This is all part of that - don't let them get away with it. Just as nurses and doctors should not have to go to work without proper PPE, teachers should not be expected to go to work without proper measures in place (including soap, sinks, infection control in schools but also functional test and trace and local public health teams informing school management in real time).

I find it amusing the many assume once schools open we will be back to normal. There won’t be normal for a very long time unless we prioritise getting case numbers down to a bare minimum, which included putting proper measures in place in schools. A quick refresher on exponential growth for those who disagree with this view might help. If as is likely from our Governments handling of this, we end up with another peak this Autumn a lot of people will stop eating out going to shops etc. The economic consequences of this are intrinsically linked to the health aspect. Just opening up will not help. As it escalates in the Autumn many parents will keep kids off anyway. School for those there will be very compromised!

Our test and trace system is a disaster because it's profit driven. It really tells you all you need to know about this government's priorities.

www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/the-new-rules-for-school-which-children-will-unfailingly-obey-because-thats-what-kids-are-like-20200702198059

Oaktree yes, you put it perfectly
The economic consequences of this are intrinsically linked to the health aspect. Just opening up will not help.

I'm constantly surprised by people's attitude. So many seem to be in denial about what an epidemic is - we can't will coronavirus to go away by opening up - what we do, our behaviour, is the only thing that can reduce infection. Yet so many wanting to go 'back to normal' which is the same - if they really mean back to our behaviour in February and March - to saying you want to go back to April and 1,000 deaths per day because that's the inevitable consequence - we've done it once, we saw the result.

Fundraising for some marquees or other space?

Who will those funds be coming from?

Parents? At our school, many families have either been furloughed or lost their jobs completely. One of the questions the teachers ask when they phone us is whether we have enough food. The school has set up its own food bank because so many families are struggling right now.

Businesses? The local ones are struggling too - the ones that have survived closure during lockdown anyway. The news is full of reports of big companies making thousands of redundancies. There isn't all that much extra money going spare right now.

Our PTA would normally raise the bulk of its money through social events - fairs, discos, coffee mornings. None of those can go ahead now. In any case the parents who run it are like everybody else - trying to juggle 'homeschooling' with work and family responsibilities.

All the 'can-do' attitude in the world isn't going to fix this.

How about the government use it's coronavirus law powers to compel private schools to allow state schools to use their unused buildings, or open spaces. Maybe a couple of marquees in the far corners of the grounds.

Nah, course not, guess we aren't 'all in it together'.

I still don't understand why they can't use village halls.

Teachers are at no more risk than other jobs.

This is such bollocks and has been shown to be untrue time and time again and yet still the terminally dim repeat it.

@Sawsajis

It's not at all clear what will happen to wrap around care. There's not much point keeping primary kids in class bubbles if you then can't keep them in those bubbles for breakfast and after school clubs. But many parents will struggle without wrap around care.

It covers that in the guidance. Consistent groups in wraparound care where possible. They're not expecting kids to only socialise in their bubbles outside school either. It's about minimising contact where it's possible.