Schools guidance released

[Orangeblossom78]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53253722

No dropping of subjects at GCSE then. Posting for info

@TuckMyWin Apologies I missed that, yes I don’t think schools should stay closed until there is a vaccine.
Sadly I have read many posts from those who do think people who are vulnerable /have vulnerable dc should just deregister and stop complaining.

@CallmeAngelina

The guidance says they want everyone to wash their hands more (on arrival, every room change, before and after lunch)

We are managing that well in my Primary, but then every classroom has three sinks. Takes time, but with good organisation, it works. Kids well-trained in it and do it automatically without need for reminders.

But what about schools (particularly secondary) where sinks are few and far between?

Hand sanitiser? It's what our school is using on arrival. No idea what they are doing in the day.

@katerobs I found the briefing today quite difficult to watch. Nobody cares more about our dc’s education than dh and I. The implication that we are denying our kids an education due to a bit of unfounded anxiety, and all we need is schools to reassure us made me both upset and angry.

I don't understand why parents and teachers are so far apart in their views on this.
Teachers know how it is in school and can see the pitfalls in the guidance when it has to be used practically. Teachers are concerned for everyone's safety, including your child's, because they know just how this will play out.
As a parent why don't you also want to protect your child and value the opinions of teachers in seeing the dangers? ( some parents excepted as obviously concerned about their child's safety).
Why are you so against teachers for trying to protect and ensure the safety of your child?

I don’t think anyone can take any notice of the Government anymore. As for Jenny Harries she’s literally U turned on every single piece of “science” she’s ever relayed. Surprised the woman can sleep at night! Disgrace to her profession.

@AldiAisleofCrap Yes. Sorry to butt in but your comment to @katerobs encapsulates exactly how I feel. If I had the energy I would weep. Do you think your school might be supportive of you? I suppose even if our schools support us and don't fine us, how hideous will it be for our children when their teachers or friends die. It's a distinct possibility but no doubt someone will pop on to tell me I'm hysterical

[quote AldiAisleofCrap]@TuckMyWin Apologies I missed that, yes I don’t think schools should stay closed until there is a vaccine.
Sadly I have read many posts from those who do think people who are vulnerable /have vulnerable dc should just deregister and stop complaining.[/quote]
No worries -I didn't want you to feel more attacked than you did already :) I do think the government's position/comms on the shielding has been shit. It actually doesn't really matter what the risk to those that have been shielding is now, or will be in September. The fact is that the government has gone, in the space of a few weeks, from telling a group of people that they aren't safe to even go out for a walk in the park with nobody around, to telling them that they should send their kids back to school in September or be fined. Like I've said before, I get why they've said that about the fines - because of the vulnerable kids who need to be in school- and I honestly believe that nobody in your situation will be fined. I also, for all that my opinion is worth, believe the risk in September will be low, but not being in your position, with my health at risk, I don't pretend to know how 'low' is low enough. And that's why I think their communication strategy has been really very bad. It should be clear that people in your position have the choice to keep their children at home and keep their school place.

But what about schools (particularly secondary) where sinks are few and far between?

... and a significant number of the pupils are not exactly compliant.

@Rainmr

My DC school has taken back at least half of every year group already, doing full curriculum. The school have done an amazing job and it has been very successful. Kids have adapted very well. I am sure they will cope with a full school.

I teach in a school that has done the same. Of course you're being told it's been very successful. Whether it is in practice is another matter - depends what your bar is, I suppose. But do NOT assume that what (just about) works for half a class will be as "safe" for double the numbers. In fact, the bottom line is, even what we're doing now is not safe, regardless what Boris and co keep parroting. It is just an attempt to make parents feel better.

And why is everyone so determined to forget about what is happening in Leicester? A significant "impact" on children?

My 'can do thinking'...

Obviously this is going to be individual to each school but... I was in today and managed to get all my tables arranged so the kids can face forward (there might be some squeezing through gaps involved for some). I originally did not think that would be possible.

I reckon we can only do staggered starts and moving if we rethink lesson times and sack off separate registrations. I think 3 x 90 minute lessons with two 50 minute breaks (the only way I can see for them to all have breaks at reasonable times and also move separately) would work but you'd be losing 30 minutes of teaching and extending the school day. I've left a ten min 'stagger'. I'm not sure this is actually feasible for us.

Maybe we could bubble 7+8, 9+10, 11+12+13, or something? (Fairly small secondary - about 150/year and less for 12+13)

On way system.
Encourage bringing own food.

I think pupils should wear masks for moving. Once they're in and sat down they could remove them (maybe ones closest to the teacher could be asked to keep them in in small rooms?)

Screens for teachers where they are closer than 2m with the front row?

Corridors would have to be policed somehow I think - with quite strict behaviour expectations.

There will be no practicals to start anyway - we donated our googles and the ones we ordered in June won't arrive until mid-September.

I think we have to give it our best shot and if that leads to increased cases cross that bridge when we come to it.

Vulnerable adults should have exceptions made based on individual circumstances, making sure they have a larger classroom, PPE, no break duties, etc. Or signed off if their school can't protect them and can't feasibly have them work from home in some capacity - maybe working remotely with the vulnerable pupils who also can't safely come in?

Obviously I'm just a teacher so no one has actually asked for my input 😂

@katerobs

No Vaccine, No School

Please sign petition: chng.it/yygJXgWx

Education Secretary, Gavin Williamson has warned schools that do not reopen will face "action", and insisted fines will be handed out to parents who keep children back, as he seeks to get every pupil back in class for September.

Our children cannot 'magically' develop immunity over the summer holidays. There is no vaccine. The virus isn't any less potent. What has changed? What will change in 6 weeks time?

Does this law also apply to the rich and powerful?

Is Prince William and Kate sending their children "back" to school in September?

We should not be sending our children unless they do.

Practise what you preach.

Our children are NOT guinea pigs!

No Vaccine - No School.

Do you understand the psychological impact of social isolation? You have shared a petition which disregards the health of children stuck in a home with an abuser, children caring for members of their household. A huge amount of children were discharged from CAMHS you may be scared of a minute risk but socially isolating children and teenagers will be responsible for more deaths of children and adolescents then reopening schools will. Our children have been burden with the weight of each other's mental illness that have inevitably been made worse by the closure of schools. The law will apply to any child that includes the rich and powerful. Unless you have a legitimate medical concern one which puts your child or yourself in a medically vulnerable category you are just looking to isolate more children from friends and structure and all too often safety and a break from their home. our children have always at been at low risk for this virus do you never leave the house because for your children they are more at risk of dying in a freak accident then they are for the risk of dying from this.

@Frlrlrubert

My 'can do thinking'...

Obviously this is going to be individual to each school but... I was in today and managed to get all my tables arranged so the kids can face forward (there might be some squeezing through gaps involved for some). I originally did not think that would be possible.

I reckon we can only do staggered starts and moving if we rethink lesson times and sack off separate registrations. I think 3 x 90 minute lessons with two 50 minute breaks (the only way I can see for them to all have breaks at reasonable times and also move separately) would work but you'd be losing 30 minutes of teaching and extending the school day. I've left a ten min 'stagger'. I'm not sure this is actually feasible for us.

Maybe we could bubble 7+8, 9+10, 11+12+13, or something? (Fairly small secondary - about 150/year and less for 12+13)

On way system.
Encourage bringing own food.

I think pupils should wear masks for moving. Once they're in and sat down they could remove them (maybe ones closest to the teacher could be asked to keep them in in small rooms?)

Screens for teachers where they are closer than 2m with the front row?

Corridors would have to be policed somehow I think - with quite strict behaviour expectations.

There will be no practicals to start anyway - we donated our googles and the ones we ordered in June won't arrive until mid-September.

I think we have to give it our best shot and if that leads to increased cases cross that bridge when we come to it.

Vulnerable adults should have exceptions made based on individual circumstances, making sure they have a larger classroom, PPE, no break duties, etc. Or signed off if their school can't protect them and can't feasibly have them work from home in some capacity - maybe working remotely with the vulnerable pupils who also can't safely come in?

Obviously I'm just a teacher so no one has actually asked for my input 😂

The staggered starts seems particularly pointless. I've not read the guidance- how's it worded? Is this something the schools can choose to do or not do based on circumstances? Because it might work in some places, but in others, I just don't see how it will. Parents will more than one child will end up hanging around outside school causing more of a road block, kids arriving by bus will all arrive together anyway....It's been working well to date at our primary school with a one way system round the school. You drop each child at the classroom door and move on, no stopping in the one way system. A significant number of kids at our school arrive by bus but they tend to arrive after the majority of other kids have arrived anyway, and could quite easily be shepherded round the one way system. I appreciate that what works at our school won't work at every school, but I hope the guidance is flexible enough not to force our head into doing staggered starts and finishes when we already have a working solution.

Love it, one signature, no doubt by the dementor which wrote it ( in very poor English)

Masks for Senior School pupils would be a simple and cheap mitigation strategy which if you read up on the research has a very good effect on reducing transmission. It’s all very well saying clean this surface x times a day but in crowded indoor environments there’s a degree of aerolisation. Most secondary school kids in Europe have mask wearing as part of the strategy for Autumn Term. Masks don’t protect the wearer but they help stop the spread! Surely that’s the least we can do for staff/other kids/wider community get the older kids wearing face coverings indoors. The fact that it’s not been mandated makes me question if the plan is in fact to infect all the kids.

*Tuck
*
Like the rest it's 'guidance' and 'where possible' for staggered starts. I can't see it working personally but some schools might manage. I think face masks and one way in the corridors would be better, but that's not mentioned at all.

Just reading the guidance, and the implication is that not recommending face masks for the students might be to do with whether they use them properly. This refers to the ones arriving by public transport:

Pupils must be instructed not to touch the front of their face covering during use or when removing them. They must wash their hands immediately on arrival (as is the case for all pupils), dispose of temporary face coverings in a covered bin or place reusable face coverings in a plastic bag they can take home with them, and then wash their hands again before heading to their classroom.

I guess there might be a concern that hundreds of teenagers pissing about and touching their face masks all day might actually represent a greater infection risk?

We should try learning from other countries. Israel opened secondary schools and had to close many. Interesting read.

m.jpost.com/health-science/coronavirus-here-is-what-israels-school-could-look-like-in-sept-2020-633555/amp?__twitter_impression=true

@PymChurchBeach

Unless you are in an at risk category (and I mean an actual at risk category, not one you have interpreted yourself), then feeling "petrified" or "sick" at the thought of this is a massive overreaction and you might look into why you are feeling so anxious about an extremely minimal risk.

Really are you a psychologist? Please enlighten us concerned mothers who are worried about a second spike and no safety measures as social distancing will be scrapped in schools and will resume as normal. How reassuring. Perhaps rather than seeing these mothers as overactive nut jobs you may wish to consider that perhaps they don’t trust this ridiculous so called government who have the economy not lives at the heart of their motivation. The gvmnt whose leader was in intensive care himself and is now doing inappropriate press ups to prove as a nation we must take it on the chin. Thousands of lives could have been saved if this joke of a government had put lives before the economy in the first place. We were too late in responding hence the highest death toll in Europe.Young healthy people have died. Mothers, fathers,NHS workers, babies and young children have died. Yes the risk is minimal to the young but if it was your child would you be so flippant, if your child was the unlucky one? Every parent should have the right to make an informed choice in relation to the infection rate nearer the time. Every parent should do what they feel is right for their family. Easing lockdown will hopefully not cause a second spike but we don’t know. While there is uncertainty parents have the right to remain cautious without judgement and be defined as overactive. Why are people so intolerant of others choices and opinions on here. Isn’t this supposed to be a place of support.

I guess there might be a concern that hundreds of teenagers pissing about and touching their face masks all day might actually represent a greater infection risk?

How can it be a greater risk than doing all of the above without a mask?

I’m astounded that there are people out there who seriously think schools shouldn’t open till there’s a vaccine. Words fail me.

We do not have the highest death toll per capita in Europe. Why do people keep saying this?

It's clearly unsafe for teachers and I don't see how anyone can argue against that.

Why are teachers denied any protection against COVID when ALL other citizens are being advised to wear masks in enclosed spaces when in prolonged close contact with others.

We do not have the highest death toll per capita in Europe. Why do people keep saying this?

I would imagine they are referring to the seasonally adjusted death rate increase rather than confirmed Covid 19 deaths. We missed a lot of cases through early lack of testing.

San Marino still beats us but off those figures we are number one of the 'proper' countries.

Johnson has said on several occasions that if a workplace can't be made COVID secure then use PPE. If he hadn't already had CV I'd be inviting him to sit in a standard secondary school classroom and see how many desks are crammed into a small space and how poorly ventilated it is. I understand that windows don't open wide for safety reasons but we are in a strange situation where wide opening windows are necessary for safety.