Schools guidance released

[Orangeblossom78]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53253722

No dropping of subjects at GCSE then. Posting for info

@mrpumblechook

Schools can't stay shut forever and while I think that the risk should be reduced as much as possible (e.g. masks in secondary. extra cleaning), it can't be made totally safe. I understand the fear as I am not particularly low risk myself and I'm probably going to have to separate quite a bit from DD when she goes back to school but I think it's the only solution.

If only the Government were giving schools money for extra cleaning , allowing them to wear masks/visors, making the older children wear them - and then paying for it. If even that had been said in the guidance, teachers would feel happier.

What part of this guidance is completely unworkable? It seems ambiguous enough to allow individual schools enough free reign to adapt accordingly.

The previous guidance was full of impossible restrictions such as "15 to a bubble" etc.

The theme until now has always been "we want to get back to work but the government guidance makes it impossible. There physically isn't the space".

Now the guidance gives schools autonomy on implementing their own safety measures yet it's still impossible?

@Messageinateacup

Nope palace girl that won't wash, you wrote this: quite frankly the fact teachers are on full pay and always have been since the start even though the majority worked shifts maybe 1 week in 3 for so many weeks yet are so unwilling to put forward any solutions is so disappointing so you clearly think that they have not been working their full hours as why on earth would you mention their full pay? (Full pay for full hours being unremarkable!)

Youre right, I shouldnt have generalised. Im only basing that on my own experience from my kids school where teachers were only in 1 week in 3 (and both my kids teachers told me they were bored at home) - my sister, and 2 best friends who were also not in full time. All of those were primary though so youre right I shouldnt have generalised as im sure schools are all different (and I have no experience of secondary yet) I should have been more specific.

We keep hearing from people who say they are teachers that teachers want the kids back while objecting to every plan to do so. Yes it is wearing thin. Teachers have lost the last bit of credibility they had with the public with their obstructive approach. No one is ever going to take them serious as a 'profession' after all this.

@Eileithyiaa

What part of this guidance is completely unworkable? It seems ambiguous enough to allow individual schools enough free reign to adapt accordingly.

The previous guidance was full of impossible restrictions such as "15 to a bubble" etc.

The theme until now has always been "we want to get back to work but the government guidance makes it impossible. There physically isn't the space".

Now the guidance gives schools autonomy on implementing their own safety measures yet it's still impossible?

If you've read the thread I'm sure you will find lots of examples to answer your question.

Off the top of my head...

Staggered start and finishing times for secondary won't work as all get bussed in (in may areas).
Bubbles of 240+ (wtf!) and teachers have to go between all 5-7 bubbles so 1000s of kids.
Staggered lunch and breaks will take all day for 7 bubbles! Most schools will only have one kitchen.

I'd love screens, more sinks, temperature checking, handsan on lanyards is a great idea. Why aren't they in the government guidance? I have absolutely no influence that would get me these things in school.

What will be interesting will be staff turnover in secondary schools. Some struggle to recruit already but mask the issue with supply staff or temporary placements within MATs. The HTs who are switched on will use their approach to Covid issues as a way to temp good teachers especially in shortage subjects.

@CallmeAngelina If marquees are such a bad idea maybe someone should tell the Welsh Gov as thats where I saw them on the news on Monday, set up ready to teach. OK not all schools have the grounds..but those that do?...

@UmbrellaHat

We keep hearing from people who say they are teachers that teachers want the kids back while objecting to every plan to do so. Yes it is wearing thin. Teachers have lost the last bit of credibility they had with the public with their obstructive approach. No one is ever going to take them serious as a 'profession' after all this.

We have been bashed by the public for decades! I'm sure we will cope without you're approval.

And we have given lots of workable solutions as have unions. But it has fallen on deaf ears.

No one is ever going to take them serious as a 'profession' after all this.

You have cut me to the quick.

Incidentally, are you considering sending your children back to be taught and cared for by such a bunch of no-hopers?

Ah, umbrella. If you wanted anyone to take your posts seriously you should have held back on that crack about wearing masks being embarrassing.

I really don't think teachers are asking for the moon. At the heart of this is (imo) an understandable world weary despondency at the lack of consideration.

If govt had said - particularly with regard to secondary schools "look we know its not straightforward, one size fits all answer for education, but we trust you so we'll give each school £x and you use that as you see fit to meet these parameters of education. In that scenario I'd imagine that you would see palaces desire of lashings of can-do and ginger beer all round.

But to basically be given this guidance which is clearly unworkable does seem like the very definition of (to borrow a sporting analogy) a hospital pass.

Utter bollocks- not one teacher on any of the billion threads about schools has said they don't want the children back

Not in so many words they haven’t. In one breath they say - we want the kids back but follow up with but why should we put our health at risk. Which I do actually get believe it or not. Children do need to get back in to school for many reasons and online teaching just isn’t good enough for long term education so I think the teachers that are scared or anxious need to reconsider going back to teaching at all. I wouldn’t go back to a job I didn’t feel safe in.

I don’t see why all teachers can’t be issued with face shields.

It seems lots of people on this thread have difficulty in understanding the difference between teachers and child minders.

Can I ask a genuine question? I really do want to know the answer, and I don't mean it to be goady. For those that consider themselves too clinically vulnerable to return to work in a school, or live with those who are, are you more vulnerable to coronavirus in particular than, say, flu in a bad flu year? Or any of the other viruses circulating in the winter that cause bronchitis or pneumonia? Or to a norovirus outbreak? I know that at the height of the pandemic it was far more likely for you to get coronavirus than it was flu or any of the others. However, the rates of infection in most areas are now low. And it's reasonable to assume that by September they may be lower. And when the children go back to school there will be much more heightened infection control than in the past.

And, secondly, if you or your relatives are that vulnerable to coronavirus in particular, is there any level of protection that could be put in place in schools to make you feel comfortable to return?

@UmbrellaHat - we simply want what other professions and occupations have.

I have delivered a full on-line timetable since lockdown started. I have marked and assessed work, marked exam papers, written full reports, run extra-curricular clubs - all business as usual but on-line.

You don’t have to join us. We want don’t need ‘glass half empty types’. And quite frankly people like you are in the minority

And sorry, that is meant specifically for those on this thread that have said they are concerned because of their personal vulnerability or that of their relatives. Not for the general argument for more consideration to PPE for all teachers etc.

tuck we've answered your second point!

The first one, yes we are more at risk of all infections. But flu for example, we are vaccinated against.

And I haven't said or I hope implied I want to continue to work from home. I want to be back. But I want us all to be wearing PPE if possible.

@HipTightOnions You make a fair point. Perhaps @UmbrellaHat should de-register her children so she can home-school instead.

@user1471530109

tuck we've answered your second point!

The first one, yes we are more at risk of all infections. But flu for example, we are vaccinated against.

I'm sorry, there's been lots of suggestions and arguments on here :) Which ones do you mean? Is it just PPE for teachers, there seems to be a lot of mention of that? Because if it is it seems to me that's pretty solvable. Maybe I'm naive but the government has proven itself not to be shy of backtracking, and the guidance seems open enough to allow PPE if the teachers really wish to wear it. For those head teachers who are refusing to allow it, perhaps the unions could help. But would PPE really be enough for someone who has been shielding to feel safe?

I can only talk for myself. But I want to be back at work. I also have a shielding member of my dept who feels the same.
But the indication from the government is that we shouldn't wear PPE. To go from shielding to standing in front of potentially 100s of kids a day in small rooms is ludicrous. And actually, for us to feel safer, I'd like everyone in schools to wear some form of Ppe.

I know it's been implied on this thread by a monkey that we are work shy and want to stay home and get tax payers money. But I don't! And my colleagues don't either! A parent too and I want my kids back, one of who is also clinically vulnerable. I just want more time and money put into the planning.

@UmbrellaHat

We keep hearing from people who say they are teachers that teachers want the kids back while objecting to every plan to do so. Yes it is wearing thin. Teachers have lost the last bit of credibility they had with the public with their obstructive approach. No one is ever going to take them serious as a 'profession' after all this.

The only objections are to plans that are plainly unworkable.

We do not have an obstructive approach, unless we are confronted by people who know nothing about how schools work trying to tell us how to do our jobs. We KNOW what the set-up is and therefore whether some half-arsed "bright" suggestion from an MNer (who is desperate to get their child out of the house regardless of the risk to anyone else) is going to work or not.
And frankly, we really don't give a shit whether you take us "serious" ( I presume you mean, "seriousLY") or not. It would appear from the multitude of threads on here that you need us more than we need you.
I could (and may) walk out tomorrow. I can guarantee that that would leave a major problem in my school, so I won't. But neither will I accept sub-standard safety considerations. Fortunately, I am reasonably satisfied with how my school is operating - for the time being.

I wouldn't have anything against the teachers wearing PPE, if that's their choice. I think some have been already. Face shields would solve the problem of communication and (I assume) are more comfortable than masks all day. If the guidance really does say no PPE is allowed (rather than no PPE is recommended) then I'd welcome the unions tackling that as a specific issue.

Omg, I didn't mean monkey. By a small minority is what I thought I typed . Shitting phone .