Times saying secondary schools might not open

[Orangeblossom78]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-secondary-schools-might-not-be-able-to-fully-reopen-in-september-hrfmxlg5j

Schools will not be able to fully reopen in September unless people behave themselves over the summer, scientific advisers have warned ministers.

Even a modest increase in people’s leisure contacts would mean a choice between shutting pubs or keeping secondary schools closed, modelling for the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) suggests.

Just wondered thoughts on this. I hope they can open.

It says

"Public Health England data shows that outbreaks of suspected coronavirus in schools have tripled since they reopened to more pupils on June 1.

There were 44 respiratory outbreaks in schools last week, of which 23 were confirmed as coronavirus, up from 14 suspected in the first week of June, nine confirmed as coronavirus.

Sage documents released yesterday revealed that without an effective contact-tracing system, the return of all primary school children would push the reproductive rate of the virus above the crucial level of 1, even at current levels of social contact.

Even with contact tracing reaching 80 per cent of contacts in 48 hours — better than current performance — the return of secondary schools would be likely to push R above 1 once people return to half their normal level of work and leisure contacts.

It is thought that contact levels are just below this at present and that Sage has concluded there is hope of a full return by September if people interpret social-distancing advice very strictly.

If people increase their contacts scientists have warned ministers that they face the tough choice between keeping teenagers at home or shutting down other sectors of the economy to allow them to return to education. Pubs have been mentioned as an example of what might have to close."

I think the DfE & exam boards would be very wise to include a substantial amount of teacher assessment in next years GCSE’s and A Levels. It’s going to be utter chaos.

Article makes sense. It’s such a delicate balancing act.

It will only be safe enough to re-open secondary schools (Well, safe-ish. Fingers crossed.) if we all exercise caution everywhere else in our lives.

So no “teenagers should be in school because they’re all meeting up anyway”.

What are our priorities?

What is the situation in France, Spain, Italy with reopening schools after the summer? They have/had similar levels of infection to us.

I agree with the article, at the moment we can't have everything and people to need to stick to the rules if everything is going to open up. Keep seeing too many posts on here from people who are allowing their kids of all ages to have non-socially distanced play dates and meet ups with friends, BBQs and other meetings with much larger groups than 6 with sharing food etc. yet moaning that their kids are not back in school. Unfortunately if people keep behaving this way then no, schools won't be open full time in September. We need to make a choice as to what is more impoortant.

Sadly I fear come Sept/Oct there will be a lot more outbreaks and even if not another full lock down schools will be closing down left right and centre for a couple of weeks at a time. Education next year is likely to be very disrupted.

It feels like most of the talk is about primary schools- I am unsure of the situation with secondaries in Europe however I do remember something about how Germany opened to older pupils first (rather than primaries) as those pupils needed to do exams.

The only other thing I have read recently was yesterday there was something about all pupils having to face the front and that social distancing was not being used any more (think this was for all schools)

I tend to feel the Times are not usually overly negative or dramatic so trying to look for a general overview of what might happen and feeling quite unsure about it all

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/face-the-front-and-pay-attention-minister-orders-nation-s-children-mpq792shs

"Mr Williamson is preparing to double the size of teaching “bubbles” to 30 to get every child back to full-time education by September. Under the plans social distancing could be scrapped in schools."

But they are not in 'bubbles' in secondary so that would not apply

What is the situation in France, Spain, Italy with reopening schools after the summer? They have/had similar levels of infection to us

With primary schools open full time, in France anyway - it was also made compulsory to send them in.

I think that is fairly obvious.

I think that next aczafrmic year will e a mix of all in, all shut and 1/2 in blended learning.

But they are not in 'bubbles' in secondary so that would not apply

I think the suggestion for secondaries is that a bubble would comprise a whole year group. It’s utter nonsense.

On secondaries in France: it seems to depend on which area of the country

"The government has ordered schools in most of the country outside the Paris region and the overseas territory Mayotte to open, while ensuring a maximum 15 pupils per class and physical distancing. Teachers and children over 11 are expected to wear masks.

"...The two lower years of secondary schools - sixth and fifth grade – returned the following week, 18 May, under the same rules. The remaining secondary school years in the “green zone” – where the virus was deemed to pose little risk – have progressively opened since 2 June. In the “orange zone”, including the Paris region where the virus is still of concern, most secondary schools/lycées have remained shut."

More here but most of it on primaries www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/10/back-to-school-what-lessons-can-uk-learn-from-rest-of-europe

It is frustrating as i'd quite like my eldest to return to school in September but people's leisure sctivities could mean children miss out again. Obviously i want as much economy running as possible as peoples lives depend on it but all the businesses in my town are operating responsibly. It is just leisure pursuits and bordeom seem to lead to large groups of people in proximty

OP: But they are not in 'bubbles' in secondary so that would not apply

Y10s and Y12s that have been in this week have been in bubbles of up to 15. Obviously the issue of different sets and groups when it expands to 30 is a tricky one. But as levels of the virus are decreasing every day, I hope that by September the situation will have improved.

The thing that worries me is that alcohol is not conducive to social distancing, and I can't imagine people will stick to only going to pubs with their household and not meeting their mates. I think they should have made pubs and cafes reopening only with outdoor seating.

Guess who Bozo will blame.

It was never going to happen.

In our private secondary the entire year 6 is in. They are taught in the hall and a handful of other rooms. Maths, science and English only.

Schools can go back like this. But if lockdown has to go on in some form and we have to live with social distancing then some things need to go like art, drama, sit less gcses. whatever.

I really hate what its doing to the kids. But ifs going to come down to education or pubs then it also needs to come down to just core subjects I feel.

Again those that have the cash will have the kids who navigate this the best

I keep looking at the part where it says there would be a choice between schools and certain sectors of the economy. The children have taken a backseat enough as a result of restarting the economy, I don't think they will be able to take much more backseating.

@Legoandloldolls why art and drama? Why not geography and history, or other optional GCSE subjects?

My son's 6th form college are saying a mix of remote and on-site, they say they can take half of each year group at a time (so they could have taken all of his year group this half term grrrr). I bet the current Y11s get prioritised for induction purposes too, even more grrrr.

I think they should have made pubs and cafes reopening only with outdoor seating I thought that was the original plan but maybe there was lobbying to allow opening indoors too (though you have to prebook a table, so there's no standing around close to other people).

why art and drama? Why not geography and history, or other optional GCSE subjects

Because art and drama (and music) need face to face teaching and geography and history can be successfully taught online. I think.

It does say

"Sage has concluded there is hope of a full return by September if people interpret social-distancing advice very strictly.

If people increase their contacts scientists have warned ministers that they face the tough choice between keeping teenagers at home or shutting down other sectors of the economy to allow them to return to education. Pubs have been mentioned as an example of what might have to close."

And as far as I remember the plan was to row back on measures last opened (rather than schools which were meant to be in the first wave of re-opeing)

I note it mentions 'teenagers' rather than 'children' however.

I think primaries will go back in bubbles of 30 no matter what. For the childcare.

As someone who learns a good living from 'art' and have a huge amount of colleagues and peers who are involved in Art, Design, Film and Drama (yes creative arts bring billions into a normal economy), I'm be utterly pissed off if they sacrificed art and drama.

I have Y10. It's total shit for them, I know a lot of them are counting the days before they can study art and drama properly again. They've had enough of endless Maths learning websites and critiquing poetry because they're not learning a new text.