Times saying secondary schools might not open

[Orangeblossom78]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-secondary-schools-might-not-be-able-to-fully-reopen-in-september-hrfmxlg5j

Schools will not be able to fully reopen in September unless people behave themselves over the summer, scientific advisers have warned ministers.

Even a modest increase in people’s leisure contacts would mean a choice between shutting pubs or keeping secondary schools closed, modelling for the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) suggests.

Face masks need to be mandatory for all adults at least, surely this is an easy thing to do and would help to keep infection low.

I am also hearing that secondaries will not open in September, I’ve heard January 2021.

Masks aren't a practical option for teaching in, though, simply because it is so hard for children to hear what a teacher is saying through them. Visors?

I’d bet that the government will say that there needs to be separation between year groups and only half in at a time. Teachers and TAs would need to be in full time, obvs. They’ll leave detailed planning up to schools though, so they won’t face irate parents unhappy with the provision.

The biggest disruptor, though, will be if a teacher in secondary tests positive. Subject specialists may ordinarily see 150 students in a day. That’s a hell of a lot of people being asked to isolate for 14 days.

Could they not use technology to do something clever in secondary to avoid that issue .
Say class of 30 with a teacher assigned to bubble , present in class room. Subject teachers then teach remotely from another room, so not mixing with 150 kids? But live stream, so teaching from screen at front, can answer questions etc .
Would need more teachers, but could use TA Or maybe actually a good opportunity for student teachers to watch different teaching styles.
Just a thought really, probably many reasons why not !

I too wonder if that way of remote learning may be used.

The problem with that nearlyoldenoughtowearpurple is that the students in secondary almost always have individual timetables, certainly from year 9 upwards. So they wouldn’t be able to stay in the same classroom anyway. Possibly video link teaching might work for highly vulnerable teachers, but it requires tech that schools don’t have - most schools are really old buildings and struggle to even maintain decent WiFi.

I think that teens in part time would be better than any tech solution. If you halve class sizes it reduces the number of contacts and means that students get enhanced support. If you did week in-week off the week off would be consolidation of work in class, and it could be given as paper copies so students without internet wouldn’t be disadvantaged. It would also have the benefit of a weekend separating the two groups so there’s less likely to be cross contamination, and a teacher testing positive would therefore affect fewer students (current rules are contacts up to 48 hours before symptoms).

You can reduce the risk of teacher to student transmission by either saying teachers must teach from the front (no circulation) or by staff wearing visors. Ideally, of course, you could say that the vast majority of teaching should be from the front but teachers have visors so they can go over to a student if necessary. Teachers could wear gloves when touching books so we could mark work properly too. Visors and gloves would cost money, but I think government should be prepared to fund them.

Tech is good in a pinch, but there is nothing I’ve even heard of that properly replicates a classroom environment for the teacher-pupil dialogue which we know is vital to learning.

I bet the ones rushing to the pub and having parties will be the same ones 'furious' about getting denied free chlidcare their children getting denied an education.

In secondaries many of the lessons need specialist rooms (science, DT, music, computing etc) so it isn't the case that students can be in one place and the teachers rotate. In addition as students from year 10 have very individualised timetables based on their options it would not be feasible for them to be with the same group of students all day.

It's such a myth that Denmark offered a workable model for getting back. They basically held socially distanced team building activities in balmy May weather. Academic education in November gales it was not.

If test and trace is policy in September, there is no way schools could function sensibly. I have my teaching timetable for 'the normal world', by the end of the day Wednesday I will have had contact with 300 students and 3 TAs. If I came down with symptoms on a Wednesday night by the Thursday morning all those kids and staff need to be contacted and told to self isolate. A 3rd of the school. We all return, carry on as normal and the same happens 2 weeks later with the Science teacher etc etc. 🤔
Now our Senior Team feel this is unlikely as Infection levels are so low!? They are more worried about cold/fake symptoms in kids causing us to be in and out whilst people are tested.

by the end of the day Wednesday I will have had contact with 300 students and 3 TAs. If I came down with symptoms on a Wednesday night by the Thursday morning all those kids and staff need to be contacted and told to self isolate. A 3rd of the school. We all return, carry on as normal and the same happens 2 weeks later with the Science teacher etc etc

Isn’t it the case that those people only self isolate when there is a positive test result?

Chosennone I think the guidance is that the people you have been in contact with would remain in school unless/until you tested positive.

I thought they self isolate until the result is known?
If there are positive cases it will cause chaos. If infection rate is truly low it won't. It turns out we had a few cases in March before lockdown, I'm hoping the risk was higher then.

The only people who have to isolate when you get symptom are your household. Positive test is where the contacts come in. In a secondary school operating normally, which looks likely to be the September plan, a positive test would lead to large numbers in isolation. We just have to hope by September numbers are so low there aren't cases in schools.

I thought they self isolate until the result is known?

I think it’s only the person with symptoms that self isolates until the result is known.

No, I’m pretty sure everyone else carries on unless there’s a positive test - that’s certainly the policy at my school.

This strategy can only work if parents immediately get their children tested and report back, but of course there are a number of reasons why they may choose not to do so.

@HipTightOnions

No, I’m pretty sure everyone else carries on unless there’s a positive test - that’s certainly the policy at my school.

This strategy can only work if parents immediately get their children tested and report back, but of course there are a number of reasons why they may choose not to do so.

Although choosing to not get your child tested will result in the parents having to isolate for 2 weeks.

It’s an absolute nightmare to work out given the complexity of timetabling for secondary schools. The issue of transport etc etc. There’s really no obvious solutions. Rotas and blended learning. I’ve no idea how well this will work in covering the syllabus for GCSEs and A level students. Not heard anything about 2021 exams changing as yet.
Re visors - teachers tend to stand and students sit so although a visor would protect the teacher (who is likely more vulnerable tbh) the virus would fall downwards towards the sitting student IF the teacher was a carrier.

Our school’s policy for the Yr6s who are in is that the person self isolates, immediately tested and only if positive is the bubble closed.

Right. That makes sense.
So if secondary schools don't use bubbles it will lead to huge numbers of students (and their parents) isolating. Doesn't seem viable, particularly for families where parents will only get SSP to self isolate.

Maybe they are thinking of bubbles with teachers rotating, as movement on the corridor is akin to a huge human pile on! The bubbles would have to be based on ability somehow? reading age? maths sets?

As for KS4 when students have taken alternate options? any ideas? Maybe the bubble works quietly with headphones on whilst the geography teacher comes and does a class then the media teacher etc?

So if secondary schools don't use bubbles it will lead to huge numbers of students (and their parents) isolating

But again, only if someone tests positive, not every time someone is sent home with a cough.

I can see that closing the school and them having to test everyone!

I teach Art.

I have a class of 32 in a room designed for no more than 15. The school was one of the first built by PFI. This was during a Labour government when class sizes were smaller.

Art rooms are not always ‘large’

Parents would only have to isolate if own child had symptoms, they would have to stay home if child too young to stay home alone. However well you bubble in school, and it would be a nightmare to organise, you still have the problem of students getting to and from school. Teachers rotating still mixes bubbles - if a child was positive in one bubble would all their teachers need to isolate, if so then there aren't going to be enough teachers in school for the other bubbles.

@Letseatgrandma

So if secondary schools don't use bubbles it will lead to huge numbers of students (and their parents) isolating

But again, only if someone tests positive, not every time someone is sent home with a cough.

I can see that closing the school and them having to test everyone!

Yes, hence why I said we need low numbers in community. A positive case in school is going to cause chaos, best way to avoid this is not to have positive cases in school. A child with a cough will be sent home (only others that would need isolating at this point are parents and siblings as same household), assuming non-covid no one else needs to isolate. Although if that non-covid cough goes round school will lead to a steady succession of students off for a couple of days to be tested, unless they get the turnaround time for test results sped up - under an hour would be great.

My DD gets a bus to school with 80 odd different people and not necessarily the same bus each day. Loads get the train in-again, jam packed in with members of the public.

It’s going to be interesting in September.