Times saying secondary schools might not open

[Orangeblossom78]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-secondary-schools-might-not-be-able-to-fully-reopen-in-september-hrfmxlg5j

Schools will not be able to fully reopen in September unless people behave themselves over the summer, scientific advisers have warned ministers.

Even a modest increase in people’s leisure contacts would mean a choice between shutting pubs or keeping secondary schools closed, modelling for the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) suggests.

@Orangeblossom78

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-secondary-schools-might-not-be-able-to-fully-reopen-in-september-hrfmxlg5j

Schools will not be able to fully reopen in September unless people behave themselves over the summer, scientific advisers have warned ministers.

Even a modest increase in people’s leisure contacts would mean a choice between shutting pubs or keeping secondary schools closed, modelling for the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) suggests.

It's cause and effect though. A lot of anti social behaviour and lack of social distancing is down to schools and colleges being closed for 3 months as it is. Too many bored youth with too much time on their hands.

loris,

The timetabling would be very hard - many schools run a 2 week timetable, so unless students cycle through 2 weeks on and 2 weeks at home doing home learning (or each day is repeated twice, giving a 4 week timetable overall) a simple split is hard. There's no guarantee that e.g. all the pupils taking French GCSE are equally split between the two halves of the year, either, so group size could vary dramatically....

The Blended approach is interesting for older children - self paced working has been a godsend in our house (I know I’m in the minority here and that it does not suit many of our children) but it’s an approach that might allow some attendance rotation. We could also acknowledge that child care and education are not necessarily one and the same even if both are necessary. We don’t put all old people care when they get over 90 even if the majority need it - but full time child care for older and therefore more independent kids is assumed as a necessity for all families.
I think that depending on circumstances, some of the child care component could be shifted from schools. Bubbles and grandparents, wfh and govt. encouragement of flexible working might make a difference in enough cases to create some wiggle room.
Pushing this sort of approach on to families who don't want to or can’t accommodate it would of course be unacceptable.
The idea would be to allow some families with older children to opt away from full time physical attendance.
If done on a half day basis, it would also reduce the space to pupil ratio for school dinners.

Pubs, then holidays

It does feel we’re getting shunted down the list. So bad.

I much prefer Germany’s approach and priorities.

Every time someone gets respiratory symptoms (bearing in mind it will be autumn/winter when kids are full of colds anyway), the whole bubble will have to shut and isolate until the individual gets tested and waits for their results to come back (can take up to a week atm).

If a bubble is 30 children this could mean a lot of time off every single time one of them has a cold!

If a bubble is a whole secondary school year group I suspect every bubble will be almost continuously shut!

@kohlkat I think school bubbles will only isolate after a test is positive, not before. Otherwise it would be impossible.

Maybe - but these are the rules at my DS's school at the moment. They've only been back since 1st june and have already had a bubble close for a week because a child had what was presumably the common cold.

After full time online lessons since before Easter break our private school has all primary kids back (some of course remain at home for various reasons, but the school is open if they could attend). Y7 and 8 start back July 1, y10 and 12 more complicated to accommodate due to different courses and sets but are back one day a week (y10 divided into three each back one day a week). Expectation is that they can accommodate all in September full time. We have the space.
O cant reason the Tines articles as I dont subscribe, but it's interesting you point out the increased application to private schools. I thought the assumption was that they would lose students due to economic hardship.

kohlcat I think - like many other parts of the school opening procedures, it has been subject to [often secret] modification over the weeks - that current procedures do not require the bubble to shut and isolate immediately.

I THINK - and again, I may be a version or two behind, or may have got word-blind after too many sets of DfE guidance - that the current procedure is that the person with symptoms must go home and isolate immediately, and be tested. Only if they test positive does the bubble have to close.

This is a change from the start of the pandemic.

It's in this document section 'What happens if there uis a confirmed case of coronavirus in a setting'

Well that makes more sense, it wouldn't be workable otherwise.

Presumably my DS's school didn't get that memo as they're still working under the old rules!

But I appreciate it must be a nightmare for schools to keep on top of things when the rules keep changing!

Even if people "behaved" perfectly from now & over summer, I can't imagine schools open for daily attendance for all like they were before, unless a miracle vaccine is found. Schools are crowded places for adults & adults are vulnerable & take bugs home to their families.

(some) MNers keep mocking when I say no way will schools be back to 'normal' before September 2021. I wonder when mocking will stop... August 2021?

Apart from Taiwan & New Zealand, which places in world have schools & universities for all ages open as normal (daily attendance for all) & low circulating virus?

I do think this is going to long term effects on some children's education.

I do agree there is no simple answer for secondaries. The secondary my ds go to would have to be 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off and you can not say there would be exactly 15 in each group but I can not see another solution. Ds1 really needs to go back to school - he will be year10 and has struggled. Being off school has really benefited ds2's mental health so a part time timetable would help in.

The FE college I work in is planning 1 (short) day a week for level 3 students (A levels and Btecs) and 2 days for levels 1&2 (generally students without the required GCSE passes to leave school and go straight to A Level or equivalent btec). All GCSEs, skill building and theory lessons will be delivered online.

I can well believe that schools will not be able to operate as normal. I can't believe that given a choice between pubs or schools opening we're going to choose pubs

I just don't see how they open in September as normal. We clearly live in a very selfish society where people are not prepared to give up their day at the beach, celebration, pub visit etc for a minute longer. We've ended up with the worst of all worlds thanks to this shitty govt. A screwed economy, pressured NHS and education knackered due to an ineffective and incompetent lockdown. Absolutely useless.

Still, Gav's bright idea to solve it all is that they all face the front and pay attention.

Many Primary schools have class sizes bigger than 30, not that the Government would like to admit that

@WorstGovtEver I couldn't agree more or expressed it better.

The school business manager we spoke with had the "heads up" schools are not back until next year.

It's blindingly obvious that the 2020-21 academic year is going to be messy.

So has there not been any proper guidance from government over the secondary schools opening yet? Because in the papers it was saying they aren't doing social distancing anymore.

Maybe get bottom sets in. They are most likely to be disadvantaged to the extent they dont even pass gcses.
In grand scheme a a to b or b to c matters less. Also top sets can probably pick up pace quicker after this year.

Also even with air bridges lotz of kids will miss up to first 2w due to quarantine.

What do they do at breaks at secondary? If they are not allowed in classrooms.

Personally i think if parent s want them at school need to push for masks on students and teachers.

Once we open these air bridges will they shut them over winter as all it takes is a country italy?? To have an outbreak again

If they can make tests cheap enough everyone going on a plane could get one.

I do think people booking holidays abroad now are quite selfish (obviously not so much if they are already booked). As do i think people going out to indoor pub to drink.

Maybe while testing isnt being used to full capacity we should do more random testing. So in say leicester either random parents with kids at school. S korea got on top of it be really testing around a case.

Or when a family member gets ill and positive test the whole family 4days from illness start. If you arent getting the confirmed then you arent contact tracing thos ones. Eg a parent gets ill the school child isolates with them but i assume isnt tested?

Ours already has got the ones not engaging at home in to work there (Yr ten anyway) along with the key worker pupils. They ranked them 1-3 in terms of engagement. It is online though on laptops.

I disagree on the grades. They need 5 top grade B's at GCSE for six form entry here, and also grades matter a lot for university.

I wouldn’t just do lowest sets either. All the students are finding it tough to not have in school hours.

There is a link here about secondaries at present might be something of use there

www.gov.uk/government/publications/preparing-for-the-wider-opening-of-schools-from-1-june/planning-guide-for-secondary-schools

@Orangeblossom official gov guidance is due to be published at the end of this week, to give schools 2 weeks to review and implement before the end of term.

It’s a bit unfair to allow pupils back that haven’t been engaging (those with lack of IT aside). What about pupils that have engaged but are struggling at home? Are they still under the bus at present?