people, please, stay home if you can

[Lua]

Most places that have eased lockdown measures, are seeing an increase in the number of cases. So there is no way around it (at least in the short-term), live a "normal life" and increase the risk for everyone (there are no "personal risk" in a pandemic).

I see a lot of people in mumsnet saying that we suffer too much to save the lives of 80 year olds. While I find this cold assessment horrible on its own, there are so many case of under 60s suffering badly. This is a harrowing picture of 63 year old woman:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/25/from-cold-to-coma-to-homecoming-one-womans-100-days-of-coronavirus

Sure, the risk is low. Sure, we deal with risks all the time. But we also try to mitigate risks all the time. We use seat belts, and we look before we cross the road, we use helmets, etc There are many reasons why someone needs to go into work, and those are understandable. But do people "need" to go to raves, beaches, cinemas? do we really need to go into shops and buy a new summer outfit?

Life needs to be different, and we need to find new ways to make our economy tick. Lots of opportunities in new fields. Lets support each other and look for new ways to make the world go around.

I think George Monbiot summed it up:
"If the answer is shopping, we're asking ourselves the wrong questions".

Actually I think it’s a real cross-party collaboration, CountreeGurl ! I’ve seen selfish self-satisfied 70-somethings, selfish union leaders relishing the situation, selfish day trippers, selfish protesters, selfish hypocritical millionaires hopping between homes....

"If the answer is shopping, we're asking ourselves the wrong questions".

How can I get my children new shoes that fit?

How can I get food to feed my family?

I guess I could see if elves arrive in the night and try to grow all our own food, but "shopping" seems like the right answer to those questions.

And they are two of the questions I need answers to.

I staying in where possible OP and as each lockdown measure reduces, I am followed the figures. So far everything seems to be going the right way but I think the real test will be after the 4/7.

@Tibetan terrier. My grandfather was a fire warden in London during the blitz. As a result of his experiences he tried to commit suicide but my uncle, who was just a child, found him and saved his life. Neither of them ever recovered from the experience and suffered severe mental illness their whole lives. My uncle ended up a rough sleeper despite having had a good career. So bollocks to your gritted teeth and keep calm nonsense.

I get what your saying OP but how can you be sure that going to buy clothes isn't essential? My dd has suspected PDA so I had to go into primark today to buy the exact shorts I know she can tolerate. My sons shoes has a hole in hes wearing to school so at some point will need measuring.

Ok to be fair they could survive at home naked for 12 months, but I wouldnt. I have never thought about ending my life ever. But right now?

Being made to feel like shit about living life. We are all going to die. I'm going to die, your going to die. We all die and we do not get the choice of when or how. Staying in will not prevent mortality.

Pretty much all the so called economic opportunities you listed, OP, are things that the government would pay for. To pay for them it would need taxes. The taxes come from private businesses making money. Those businesses and taxes won’t exist in your world. So there will be no money for bike paths or online university curriculums or whatever else. Besides, if we are not allowed to leave our houses, why the hell would we need bike paths??

Sorry, but no. You can't destroy the lives of tens of thousands of families and the mental health and education of children going forward as a sacrifice to save those primarily in their 70s and 80s ... who can save themselves by shielding frankly, if they're so inclinded.

just to clarify - I have not accused anyone of doing anything. My title even says "if you can".

It is interesting that so many people feel accused. I guess if the glove fits....

Someone up thread said: there is a big storm coming. Yes, indeed. It is impossible (fisically, economically) for economies to grow forever. People are being abused all over the world to provided the tat that "fuels our economy". It is impossible for life on this planet to be sustainable for much longer if we continue to live the way we do. So, why not take this virus situation to start figuring out some different ways to make the world go around?

I completely understand that feeding our children today should be everyone's priority. I'm talking about not going back to everything you were doing before lockdown, if it is not a necessity. Every encounter that can be avoided (not the one's that can't), will be helping the situation.

@Lua
Yanbu and I bet that not one of the posters who says you are has been directly affected by covid nor is high risk.

Until they are directly impacted their selfishness will continue and it will be us that haven't that suffer for their utter selfishness.

No thank you.

There was a when the realization that smoking was really bad, and the state of Kentucky was freaking out, since tobacco was what they mostly grew and make their money. - We will all loose our livelihoods!

20 years later, and my kids think that people that smoke is crazy and kentucky is still there and is doing pretty growing other things. Just because people livelihoods at the moment depend on a certain way of living, it does not mean it has to stay that way. We can evolve, adapt and improve! Just be open minded.

People I know are losing their jobs, businesses have already closed. I know people putting their homes up for sale because of the financial impact. A balanced approach is necessary. Personally I know not a single person who has had the virus but many whose lives have been changed negatively because of the economic impact of lockdown.

I'm talking about not going back to everything you were doing before lockdown, if it is not a necessity

So our lives, and our children’s lives from now on should only be about necessity? Absolutely nothing else?
You talked about buying plants and puzzles upthread. Not necessary.

Urgh ousted too soon. Plants for your garden certainly aren’t a necessity if you don’t have a garden, as many don’t. So who gets to decide what is necessary?

So, why not take this virus situation to start figuring out some different ways to make the world go around?

That’s great when it comes to economic stimulus and job creation programmes, retraining and reskilling incentives, etc.

Economically and historically illiterate and utterly devoid of any empathy when it’s done in the way you suggest - destroy what we have, in the hopes that those who survive build back better.

It doesn’t have a history of working out so well.

Ironically, the parts of the economy you deplore are those more likely to survive extended lockdowns. Experiences and leisure are more likely to go to the wall in the current restrictions.

I asked earlier how many jobs you’re content to see wiped out? How many unemployed? How many businesses folding?

I am not staying at home anymore, i have mid eighties parents, you cant get the economy going if we all stay home. I am looking after myself and mine, we wear masks, we shop, we go out, we walk, we socially distance, we work from home Or are frontline NHS and cant but we are now living our lives and looking after number 1. So i wont be visiting Bournemouth or Brighton today or going to a rave or standing three inches from the person next to me in Tesco, but I’m not staying home.

Well OP this backfired spectacularly on you!!!
I'm not rushing to beaches, shopping centres or cinemas because I rarely went before lockdown however my youngest DC are back at school, I would quite gladly go back into work ( not an option as I was told early into lockdown I was being made redundant) and I am looking forward to visiting the pub next week when it opens. Other than the food shopping and taking the DC to school I go nowhere so I'm very much looking forward to it

I think a degree of caution is necessary, of course it is. But the whole stay at home thing is not sustainable long term. A local school has already lost two pupils to suicide since the whole lockdown started. There's obviously a possibility that would have happened anyway but it seems fair to conclude that the isolation exacerbated their problems. We can't stay isolated forever because it will cost lives, either through mental illness or through untreated physical illness. There is a tightrope being walked here and everyone staying at home doesn't magically mean no one does, it just means that different people die or different causes.

I went to Homebase today. I bought...

2 tins of fence paint.
3 tins of wall paint.
A giant tub of hand gel.
A parasol to keep my DC’s out of the sun when they’re in the paddling pool.
Some bushes and bedding plants for my garden.
Some craft storage.
Some doughnut rubber rings for the DC to play with in the paddling pool.

Like everyone else in the shop, I maintained at least 2m distance from anyone else. Sanitised my hands on entry and leaving.

Which, if any, of those items were necessary/virtuous? Which should I have left on the shelves as being too frivolous? I have no idea.

The Kentucky/tobacco comparison is a dreadful one. First, Kentucky adapted out of tobacco over a large number of years - it wasn’t shut down overnight.

And second, Kentucky still grows a sizeable amount of tobacco.

20 years later, and my kids think that people that smoke is crazy and kentucky is still there and is doing pretty growing other things. Just because people livelihoods at the moment depend on a certain way of living, it does not mean it has to stay that way. We can evolve, adapt and improve! Just be open minded.

Are you for real?

Not smoking is hardly the same as staying in your house. And I am an ex-smoker fwiw 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think it's about balance at this stage. Cases are declining (despite VE day gatherings/some children returning to school/more people going out/more people back to work etc.). For 3 days this week, new cases were below 1000. Today,ok, slightly above a 1000 but still below what they were last Thursday. There have been a couple of 'outbreaks' in factories which will no doubt be accounting for some of these cases. At least though, they are fairly contained outbreaks. Deaths, thankfully, also continue to fall.

Shops etc. have safety measures in place to minimise risk.

Last week, I took my son on a walk to the next village and we managed to buy a takeaway lunch from a cafe that we used to visit regularly. Yes, we could have taken lunch with us but it really made our trip a bit more special and supported a local business.

I have been back in school with Y10 the last two weeks, again, we currently have safety measures in place but it's been so nice to see them/colleagues. My son has been back at school as he is Y1 and he is enjoying it.

We can't stay locked down forever so it's about mitigating the risk, same as with anything else.

There has also been an outbreak local to Leicester and Nuneaton that hasn’t made the national stage.

[quote Lua]@TheGreatWave
Where on earth do you think all the money is coming from right now? Taxes are created the same way whether you are buying a new bikini or a nicely produced food, puzzle, plant for your garden, etc.

I wondered, how did society ever existed without people going to restaurants and buying disposable fashion.... You remind me of my DS which think there is no life worth living without internet. Like we didn't all live without just fine 20 years ago...[/quote]
But if I am buying a new bikini to sunbathe in my garden to avoid the beach is that OK or virtuous enough? Can I buy it from Primark?? Is there a sliding scale of essential-ness I can download as this could just get really confusing. I need a lie down.