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people, please, stay home if you can

717 replies

Lua · 25/06/2020 13:51

Most places that have eased lockdown measures, are seeing an increase in the number of cases. So there is no way around it (at least in the short-term), live a "normal life" and increase the risk for everyone (there are no "personal risk" in a pandemic).

I see a lot of people in mumsnet saying that we suffer too much to save the lives of 80 year olds. While I find this cold assessment horrible on its own, there are so many case of under 60s suffering badly. This is a harrowing picture of 63 year old woman:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/25/from-cold-to-coma-to-homecoming-one-womans-100-days-of-coronavirus

Sure, the risk is low. Sure, we deal with risks all the time. But we also try to mitigate risks all the time. We use seat belts, and we look before we cross the road, we use helmets, etc There are many reasons why someone needs to go into work, and those are understandable. But do people "need" to go to raves, beaches, cinemas? do we really need to go into shops and buy a new summer outfit?

Life needs to be different, and we need to find new ways to make our economy tick. Lots of opportunities in new fields. Lets support each other and look for new ways to make the world go around.

OP posts:
Lua · 25/06/2020 17:27

@IrmaFayLear - Smile you know nothing about my life. Don't make any assumptions....

OP posts:
Teateaandmoretea · 25/06/2020 17:27

@Lua no, we need to get back to normal we cannot ‘stay in’. You can if you want but everyone else cannot be expected to do so. We definitely do not agree.

IrmaFayLear · 25/06/2020 17:28

You said upthread you were retired Confused

Nonnymum · 25/06/2020 17:28

PP said estimates of covid in UK are 1 in 7000. I'm not sure where those figures come from but the ONS survey show many more than that

We estimate that an average of 1 in 1,100 individuals within the community population in England had COVID-19 at any given time between 8 June and 21 June 2020.

Teateaandmoretea · 25/06/2020 17:29

Find this thread to be a complete paradox of the other trending thread about Bournemouth beach.

I’m staying off that one. I suspect it’s a lot of media hype. But I’m not there so can’t judge. Fundamentally people are allowed to go to the beach. If you don’t like lots of people visiting your local area to go to the beach avoid living in Bournemouth. But I’m not there.

Lua · 25/06/2020 17:30

@IrmaFayLear - pretty sure I didn't

OP posts:
Moomin8 · 25/06/2020 17:31

Ok, OP lets all spend the rest of our lives trapped inside the house. Might as well be dead anyway...

DominaShantotto · 25/06/2020 17:32

Oh well fuck, someone on THE INTERNET has told me they know things and I have to do what they say.

Nah.

You can stay at home all you want weakly pleading but I'm not and my kids are going to actually get to HAVE their childhood - that nice luxury you had and see fit to deny to my children.

I've toed the line, done what was requested and now I'm putting my kids' futures and my family's mental health first - not someone pathetically imploring on the internet. I've had enough people sitting on the internet trying to tell me how to live my life for the rest of my days right now.

MargotB7 · 25/06/2020 17:32

That is exactly what I am advocating. accepting and adapting. Not going back to the same way we have been living for the past 20 year. smile

That's okay for the older generations but it's a lot to ask the younger ones.

rc22 · 25/06/2020 17:34

I may need a new summer outfit. If I do, I will consider going into a shop to buy one. I won't be browsing shops just to pass the time as I did pre-covid. I think I'm behaving sensibly.

GoldenOmber · 25/06/2020 17:36

That is exactly what I am advocating. accepting and adapting. Not going back to the same way we have been living for the past 20 year.

Well okay, I agree there's a lot to improve on there, but we can't just stay at home all the time! That's not how humans are designed to live. We've gone through this as a short-term emergency measure to control the virus but it's been really really hard for lots of people, absolutely horrific for some, and it's tanking the economy.

Lots of countries are managing to control the virus while returning - carefully with restrictions - to more normal life. It's doable.

IrmaFayLear · 25/06/2020 17:36

yep, it’s fine to say that you don’t want to buy any more stuff or go on holiday again - or even go out - if you are older, but it’s pretty unpleasant to want to kick the ladder away from those coming after you.

RaspberryToupee · 25/06/2020 17:38

Sure, the risk is low. Sure, we deal with risks all the time. But we also try to mitigate risks all the time. We use seat belts, and we look before we cross the road, we use helmets, etc

Wearing a seatbelt, as you say, mitigates the risk but it doesn’t stop it. You can wear a seatbelt and still be involved in a car accident. You can also wear a seatbelt and still die from that car accident. There are a number of things in place to mitigate risk of covid-19. I went into the office today for the first time in 3 months and I also put my works vehicle in for a MOT. Here are the ways I’ve mitigated the risk of covid-19 today:

  • on dropping my works vehicle off, the garage wiped down my keys, I wiped down the inside and all touch points in the courtesy vehicle and then used sanitizer on my hands
  • the office has introduced a one way system with a hand washing station at the front door, so I washed my hands as I went through the front door
  • before I sat at my desk, I had to put gloves on and clean my desk
  • when I went to make myself a drink, there was tape indicating 2m distance which basically meant nobody else could make a drink while I was
  • desks were taped off and those desks weren’t in use where you couldn’t ensure social distancing
  • desks have been moved to ensure 2m distance
  • I stayed 2m away from all my colleagues
  • when using the kitchen facilities, I had to disinfect after use
  • the cleaner (usually restricted to early mornings) is now working all day and cleaning everything twice a day
  • on leaving, I had to disinfect my desk and anything I’d touched, use hand sanitiser as I left
  • picked up my works vehicle (which was essential as I had two tyres that weren’t road legal), disinfected all the touch points in the courtesy car and then did the same with my vehicle

How is that not mitigating the risk?

The problem is the large number of people as you can see in the response to my message that think this is all over, and there is no reason to change their life anymore.

Just because you’re going out and even daring to go further than just work or for a food shop, it doesn’t mean people think it’s over. People are mitigating their risk. People are wearing masks in shops, on public transport. People are choosing to walk in the middle of the road when someone walks towards them. I dared to go to the seaside, which I managed social distancing very easily. I sat on the beach, at least 10m away from the closest family, the council/estate had removed gates so there was very few touch points. When there was a touch point, we used our sleeves, elbows or used sanitizer afterwards. We took our own sandwiches, using sanitizer before eating, bought a drink at one of the cafes to try to support the local economy, took our rubbish home with us. Anyone who thinks my trip to the beach is killing anyone can fuck off. That trip to the beach has saved my mental health.

I see a lot of people in mumsnet saying that we suffer too much to save the lives of 80 year olds.

My 86 year old grandma is shielding, so please don’t tell me that I am saying I am suffering too much for her when I say this. My grandma is fucking terrified of this virus, probably irrationally so. She isn’t going to live forever and I’ll be devastated when she goes but this virus isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. She’s not left her house, not even to clap for the NHS (she did that from the window as was too scared to stand on her driveway). My grandma is missing routine medical appointments for things that might kill her anyway. And if she does die? She’ll have spent the last few months of her life locked away with fear, not hugging her children or grandchildren. Not treating everyone to a meal, which is one of her favourite things to do especially as didn’t get out too much before lockdown. My sibling and a few cousins are on furlough. On top of her own health worries, my grandma is worried sick about our job prospects. She’s worried that we won’t find new jobs if we lose our jobs. She’s worried that the few of us that have managed to buy in the last few years will be stuck with negative equity. I’m terrified that somehow we have to get my grandma to the hospital/doctors for routine appointments when everyone who could drive her is in a high risk industry and she’s convinced that taxis are the source of the virus and will not take one. She’s isolated herself so as close to zero risk as you can get but she still has other health problems that needs addressing and what about her mental health? Does mental health in 80 year olds not count or do we only give a shit if they die from Covid-19? I live 200 miles away from her and whilst we’re on lockdown, I can’t see her, even just waving to her from the bottom of her drive. If she’s locking herself away indefinitely, I want to be able to travel, stay somewhere and actually talk to her from the bottom of her drive or in the garden. So quite frankly, piss off with your sanctimonious attitude. If the risks are too high for you (as they are for my grandma) stay inside, do what is right for your family but don’t try to tell others what is right for theirs.

FizzAfterSix · 25/06/2020 17:40

YABVU. So tired of these nanny state strictures which are hugely damaging on every level. By all means stay at home but you have no right to deny people their freedom.

Orangeblossom78 · 25/06/2020 17:41

I think all this telling others how to behave and shaming people is bad for their mental health and frightens people too (like the PP's granny above)

Please do as you wish and let others do as they do.

bigknickersbigknockers · 25/06/2020 17:42

No, you stay home... Im off out.

AnnaNimmity · 25/06/2020 17:44

no, i won't.

And yabu - just because you are happy without fast fashion, without restaurants, without plastic tat. I reserve my right to buy all that stuff.

I think the people working in those industries are happy for me to buy that stuff.

Their children who would otherwise go without food (most people in those sectors are women and high proportion are single parents) are happy for me to buy that tat.

My mental health needs me to go out. And that of my children too.

I'll be in those pubs on the 4th July and I can't bloody wait.

Tigger001 · 25/06/2020 17:46

@Lua I know you are not suggesting we stay stagnant like lockdown was a few months ago and more concerned with the real necessities in life and the risk of just opening everywhere up. Sadly the economy has tanked and the government need that to be resolved at any cost.

I will be staying away from shops, cinemas and most definitely pubs, and most people we associate with a feeling the same. There is no mad dash for kids clothes that you can't buy online, nor do we need to be in the pub or watch a film that aren't on a TV that badly yet.

While I understand the need for the economy to restart, the problem is, it will increase the cases and I don't have faith in our government that they have a clue what they are doing, and have effectively just washed their hands of the situation for all to use our "common sense" when some have non.

We will be very selective who we have any contact with, the sensible ones we will see in our garden, we don't know any (what we would deem ) reckless ones ,yet, but they will be by phone.

I agree everyone will be shouting at teachers again in September when schools can't reopen full time, when really it's not the teachers who are responsible for others actions.

Samsen · 25/06/2020 17:47

I’m in the minority of people here who agree with you. Apart from getting my dc’s hair cut (it’s curly long and in their eyes) and going out for walks/exercise things will be pretty much the same for us, for a while at least. I’ve seen pictures plastered all over Facebook today of people on beaches, almost not social distancing, police had been called in to some beauty spots around the country due to people drinking and causing fights, and I just think what dick heads! I will be trying my best to keep my dc entertained but we won’t be going anywhere near a beach or to theme parks which I expect to be packed. It’s one summer out of our lives that’s it.

Yankathebear · 25/06/2020 17:47

I’m with you op (although I’ve been going to work so staying in apart from that).

To the person who said ‘who died and put you in charge’, the answer is far too many people have died.
Thanks for feeding the nation though. Flowers

DisobedientHamster · 25/06/2020 17:49

@Lua

Teateaandmoretea - "Yabu OP ... this virus is going nowhere so we're going to have to learn to accept that."

That is exactly what I am advocating. accepting and adapting. Not going back to the same way we have been living for the past 20 year. Smile

Going to pay peoples' bills then, Lua? Their private psychiatric bills because their mental health is fucked and the NHS has told them to trot forthwith? Private education for children with additional support needs because non-full-time education, that they need to have any level of functionality in society, is now denied to them? Thought not Smile.

P.S. pensions can't be paid out if not enough people are working to pay them.

DisobedientHamster · 25/06/2020 17:51

now-full-time-education, that is.

wafflyversatile · 25/06/2020 17:52

Most people are mostly staying home when they can. You cant see them. You can see the people when they do leave home. And then most of them are being mostly sensible according to their own risk factors and risk appetite. Some are not. Some of these are young people who are low risk and probably struggle more with lockdown but less obvious are the elderly who were meant to be shielding. Many of them have been out before they should too.

Yes the govt have fucked this up from day one. And yes having messed up the easing is earlier than it should be and they've lied and set a shitty example but this is where we are. Do what you feel is best for you. That's about all you can do. Others will do the same.

DisobedientHamster · 25/06/2020 17:53

@Orangeblossom78

I think all this telling others how to behave and shaming people is bad for their mental health and frightens people too (like the PP's granny above)

Please do as you wish and let others do as they do.

Always done passive aggressively with emoticons like Smile and tired epithets like 'selfish'.
TibetanTerrier · 25/06/2020 17:54

@GoldenOmber - Believe me, I know a great deal about what that generation went through. Rationing was still on when I was born. My father was dug out of bombed buildings three times, as he lived in London all through the war, as did my grandparents. My mother was shot at by a German plane returning from a raid as she walked to school across Richmond Green. One of my uncles was fighting in the Canadian Air Force and another was in the RAF and was shot down. My point is that they had every reason to be traumatised, but the vast majority still showed grit and courage, and just got on with it. Day after day. Year after year. Today's locked down generation have not had to face anything remotely as terrifying or dangerous as the wartime generation did. It's only been a few weeks. They've known that if they stayed indoors they weren't in danger, they have tv, they can videocall anyone they like, they can go online and talk to other people all day if they want to, they have movies to watch and millions of music recordings available to them. They can go for a run or a walk without any danger of a bomb falling on their heads. And they can't cope? They should try life as one of the millions living through Covid-19 in one of the world's desperate refugee camps if they think they've got it tough. They should stop whinging about how hard done by they are and get a grip. They're utterly pathetic and gutless.

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