I'dWhat do you think of the English government's handling of the coronavirus pandemic so far?

[Twinklelittlestar1]

Following on from a previous thread I'd really like to know what you think?

I'm not usually a fan of conspiracy theories, but goodness, I would almost rather believe that they have a great plan, even if it did include a cull the elderly and vulnerable, abhorrent as that would be, than face up to the idea that they really just can't work out how to do governing.

So which European Gov do you think has got it right? They have all had issues with PPE, Carehomes etc

Helpfulperson I don’t know enough to comparatively analyse but Germany & Ireland seemed to lockdown earlier, trace earlier and have clearer plans for end of lockdown & less horrific death rates.

Nothing seems to be timetabled right in England, face masks on public transport starting next week, quarantine starting so late when other countries were at least attempting to do temperatures and onward travel plans of passengers months ago. Maybe you could point out what the Gov has got right?

'Issues' with care homes

It's a pretty weak argument to try to suggest we are 'just as bad' as other European countries. I wasn't aware this was a race to the bottom.

Oh and the PM abolishing the Threats, Hazards, Resilience and Contingency Committee months before this all hit looks like a Govt failure in forward planning too

Since this thread is allegedly a discussion on how the “English” Government has handled the crisis I would have thought it was quite logical to use other European countries as a measure. How is that a weak argument? And the pp was simply asking those thinking it’s been handled badly who they think handled it better.

Ok for a start, Denmark. They locked down before they'd even had one death. Their planning and foresight allowed them to save many lives.

Denmark current deaths - 594
Uk current deaths - 41,481

Their hospitals are now reopened to other health issues and been able to lift lockdown restrictions. They are testing anyone with respiratory symptoms and have mass testing centres in tents and towns across the country.

"Denmark’s mass testing and tracing and low case and death rates mean that they are perfectly positioned to address any future creep of the virus, because their overall cases numbers have been suppressed to stay within manageably low levels."

Ireland seemed to lockdown earlier, trace earlier and have clearer plans for end of lockdown

Seems quite confused in Ireland;

Jun 12 - "Irish kids could only be in school one day a week in September, Education Minister warns."

www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-kids-could-only-school-22182360

June 5 - "Dublin city playgrounds to remain shut despite Taoiseach’s announcement. Council says it does not operate supervised playgrounds so will not be reopening facilities;"

www.irishtimes.com/news/education/dublin-city-playgrounds-to-remain-shut-despite-taoiseach-s-announcement-1.4271905

Jun 9 - U-turn - "Playgrounds will reopen in Dublin city by the end of the week without Covid-19 precautions"

"in relation to cleaning the advice was that each piece of equipment would have to be cleaned after each child and it was not feasible."

"as a result there will be no supervision, no cleaning regime, no guarantee of social distancing and no guarantee that children will be accompanied by adults."

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-city-playgrounds-are-set-to-reopen-today-1.4274585

@Nihiloxica this is simply not true. We didn’t all lockdown at the same time and each country implemented different measures, some stricter, some more relaxed.

I'm not really sure how trying to find examples of where other governments had failings stands up as an argument as to why our response hasn't been terrible.

What is the basis of your judgement of failure? Is it the death rate? Because if that is the case you have to look at those most likely to have the worst outcomes e.g. the elderly, the obese, BAME, and of those categories the UK has high numbers. Also I think it highlights the issue of overcrowding in the UK.

Failure to be responsive
Failure to plan
Failure to communicate effectively
Failure to prepare
Failure to protect
Failure to lead
Failure to learn from mistakes
Failure to gain trust
Failure to resource
Failure to be transparent
Failure to be to accountable
Failure to be honest
Failure to be integral
Failure to be decisive
Failure to gain public confidence
Failure to listen
Failure to act when needed
Failure to invest in PPE/tech to track and trace/ care for the elderly/ testing

But are you basing your judgement of failure purely on the high death rate? If so the UK has far higher numbers in the categories most likely to die.

Apart from failing to be adequately prepared for the pandemic the list you provided is mainly opinion based. Failure to prepare is not just on the head of this government but also previous ones.

Ireland vs Northern Ireland is likely the closest comparator you are going to get in terms of what the effect of Government policy decisions has been & unfortunately Northern Ireland has fared worse so far www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/opinion/coronavirus-ireland-is-one-island-with-two-very-different-death-rates-1.4234353%3fmode=amp

Went into lockdown too late.
should have closed off borders immediately.
Poor going back to school planning/guidance.
Care home deaths appalling.

But really do not see it as being as dire/appalling as do many say. We are one of the only countries in the world who accurately record all covid related deaths as covid. Hence our numbers are higher.
Even a lot of scientists/experts/press in Germany (I'm half german so do know) who have so few deaths (a lot due to investment decades ago in 1000s intensive care beds and ventilators- so hardly another thing we can purely blame on this government) say the UK 's handling of the situation is not half as bad as so many here are constantly moaning about. I truly believe had Corbyn and his party been in charge we would have completely lost all control of it a long time ago and been in a far worse state.
This situation is by no means over. The constant blame, moaning, attacks, no recognition of the good at all...etc etc is not helpful or constructive in any way.

On the first Saturday in March, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and his fiancée, Carrie Symonds, could be found standing among an 81,000-strong crowd at a stadium in Twickenham watching England play Wales at rugby & happily shaking hands.

Same day in Dublin, the rugby field was empty. That was because the government had cancelled Ireland’s scheduled match with Italy as one of its first precautions against the spread of the novel coronavirus.

I’m sure the Government would rather we didn’t make international comparisons.

This situation is by no means over. The constant blame, moaning, attacks, no recognition of the good at all...etc etc is not helpful or constructive in any way

This

and totally agree with you ImMrsRobinson have thought all along what this DOES prove as we basically have know all along is this country, particularly London is completely overcrowded.

We are a tiny island! But have far too many highly density populated areas. This is a huge reason for the high infection/death rates we had for a while. What are the government meant to suddenly do about that exactly?

Terrible.
The facts state that.
Useless bunch of toffs.

Sundowners - The constant blame, moaning, attacks, no recognition of the good at all...etc etc is not helpful or constructive in any way.

It’s not constructive to try and close down legitimate questions about the handling of the pandemic either - we need to get it right going forward and for that to happen the govt need to be reflective and not just shout louder over questions that they are proud of their record.

So you point out the recording of deaths as being more accurate in the UK -I agree that is good. Other countries can surely map excess deaths over this period against their typical number of deaths too?
You say there’s no recognition of the good in the UK - which things do you refer to here?

The government has done appallingly with the tools it had.

But we were almost doomed from the start: a massively fragmented health system after the Lansley reforms; the systematic defunding of councils so that local public health was decimated, and poor preparation for pandemics while all emergency planning resources were on Brexit.

Add to that a populist campaigning government with little experience of governing and even less of true crisis management, a weak cabinet, poor modelling and early management, a lack of imagination in testing (such as the early insistence that there was no community spread, so no testing unless you’d personally been to China recently but not if your colleague had), the ideology that meant the week before lockdown Boris couldn’t get his head around the idea police would have to enforce it... the list is endless.

And the catastrophic decision to empty NHS beds into care homes without testing which is what has made us the worst in Europe.

There isn’t an English government

Good points:

Accurate data recording
Testing (now it’s been improved)
NHS not overwhelmed
Financial support

'English government' just because each country has had a different response and very different outcomes

Bollocks.

The death rate in Wales is almost the same as England, and in Scotland it's not that far behind. Only Northern Ireland really escaped.

Do you have any kind of stats to support your claims?

And the same measures and laws were passed at the same time in the different countries.

England did worst because the virus got to London first.