What would you actually like the government to do on schools.

[StatisticalSense]

The demands on this site with regards to schooling are simply incompatible. Schools physically do not have the room or staff to reopen to their normal numbers of pupils with any form of social distancing in place, so it clearly isn't possible to get all kids back to school full time with social distancing in place.
What exactly would you like the government to be doing on schools that is actually feasible?

Completely agree attictroll.

What has really enraged me this morning is that a friend whose kids attend the local private school has just heard that they are opening next week to all primary year groups, and that ‘guidance will follow shortly’ for the senior school to get them back in before the summer.

We are going to end up with serious social divisions if even some of the private sector goes back while state school kids are thrown under the bus.

I hope someone in govt picks up on threads like these - surely if we have the ideas to help schools open, Their own policy advisors can come up with the same stuff!!

I am not normally one for writing to the school, MP Etc but plan to do so for this - it is really bonkers that they are not putting the kids first.

Agree - and rather than saying oh what about the teachers who won’t or can’t go back- fine. Let’s count those who can or will. Those at home can maybe support in other ways.
The social divisions will widen. Female equality will suffer.

Pay should be stopped for teachers who won't go back, the same as any other workers.

Simplistic, but allow parents who work to send their children back.

@Attictroll
I wish the DfE had asked schools what they could do. We all knew that the plan that came out just wouldn’t work but before that schools were thinking about what would work! Rota so that all were back part tome, prioritising families where both parents work (or one in one-parent families) etc. Giving full time places to 4 year groups and ignoring 4 others while failing to think more carefully about key worker status is ridiculous! I’m a teacher and have some children back in my key worker bubble that have one key worker parent but also a stay at home parent.

Pay should be stopped for teachers who won't go back, the same as any other workers.

The only teachers not going back are vulnerable ones who are shielding.

Do you think they should be unpaid?

Until those staff return, we don’t have enough teachers to operate anywhere near normal. It boils down to money, but what should the schools do?

No, not for shielding teachers.

But I've seen plenty perfectly healthy teachers saying they won't go back until "it's safe" and talking about the "human soup" of children that they won't be thrown into.

Do you have stats for teachers who "won't" go back? MN makes it seem much higher than it is.

In my staff of 140 I have:

2 shielding critically vulnerable partners, who technically should be in work and taking extra precautions at home, but who any GP would sign off with anxiety if they were "forced" to come in. We have plans for them to deliver lessons remotely into a classroom where students will be supervised by TAs. It's possible that they could deliver to two classrooms and thereby teach the whole class, rather than half, so it could even be better than if they were in. TBH their partners' conditions are such that they could probably be signed off with stress for that reason alone, regardless of a pandemic.

Then I have 4 with shielding letters of their own, also working remotely.

24 who are struggling to come in because of childcare issues of their own and no matter how "hard" I am, I can't see a solution for them. Most of them can do some time in school but not fulltime.

There is an element of people who are generally nervous or worried about vulnerabilities that don't put them in the shielding category, but there's been quite a shift in the last couple of weeks and they are now feeling better about returning, or at least accepting that they will have to.

IMO the unions have not been helpful to schools or staff. I understand their position is to protect staff at all costs and you can't argue with that but staff (with some exceptions) have not wanted to take the hard line the unions have suggested.

I put this on another thread, I'm not anti teacher i just think they should be in the same position as other workers and not be able just to decide they're not going into schools.

"that sounds really hard. I realise that many teachers are in your position and feel like you. The problem is that there are so many loud voices saying they won't go back til "it's safe" and the unions are playing a really bad game by sounding so negative. But i suppose it's the loudest voices which are heard.

I'm also so worried about my child and feel
powerless so I'm probably a bit blinkered. Plus it's the teacher on my sm who's always wittering about not going back til 2021 and how great the lockdown is! Anyway, apologies to you and other hard working teachers 💐"

But I've seen plenty perfectly healthy teachers saying they won't go back until "it's safe" and talking about the "human soup" of children that they won't be thrown into.

Oh, right-it must be true then that there are loads of teachers point blank refusing to go back to work and their head teachers just haven’t done anything about it.

@Mascotte I don't know of any teachers who are refusing to go into school? There's no strike, no action? The numbers of teachers who can't work all day out of the house due to there being no extended childcare is the same as other key workers? The same number of people are "refusing to go back" in any profession? They are either being signed off with stress or resigning. And yes, it's happening in the NHS too. A lot.

I do think that this is a case, as was said on another thread, of people only seeing what personally affects them - like the man who thinks bin men only work on Tuesdays, as that's the day they take his bins away. There is a lot of misinformation being spread about people "refusing to work" which is really damaging and @MNHQ should be taking a stance on it.

Teachers are also in the fortunate position that they will get paid whether they go in or not. Someone posted that she has teachers with shielding partners and if they weren’t allowed to stay off they’d go and get signed off with stress. Not if like many of the workforce they only got SSP they wouldn’t.

And I would like govt, unions and teachers to start with the attitude of what can we do not what we can’t. And use some of the fresh thinking other sectors have employed.

Absolutely this

And basically, get them all back to school ASAP. Drop social distancing among kids as that obviously isn’t going to work. Provide PPE for teachers.

Masc, as has already been said, any teachers who won't go back, won't get paid. In our school policy only the shielded are not in. Anyone else is expected in, or will be taking unpaid leave.

As for what can be done, with government current SD guidelines, the best we can do is a rota, with keyworker / vulnerable / those suffering with poor mental health etc in for the rest of the time with non teaching staff supervising the distance learning. For secondary they would have to stay in form groups so any options would have to be supervised set work. No practicals in any subjects, just theory.

Teachers are also in the fortunate position that they will get paid whether they go in or not

From SLT Zoom meetings recently, I know that if teachers simply refuse to go in to work, they will not be paid.

Just like other jobs.

Laurie to protect the teachers and the community the kids need to wear ppe. Properly and all the time.

@Beawillalwaysbetopdog That's just totally unnecessary.

Laurie to protect the teachers and the community the kids need to wear ppe. Properly and all the time.

Nonsense.

Do patients in hospital (who are infinitely more dangerous to others than children) wear PPE at all times? Inhabitants of nursing homes? No.

Teachers wear PPE to protect themselves. Children are at very low risk.

Do any of you watch the daily briefings? Did you watch yesterday? If so, how do any of you still think that it's teachers, or the unions, that are preventing schools from going back?

Sir Patrick Valance and the prime minister explained in detail why the government won't allow schools to open fully. It really was very clear - it's because the infection rate is too high and so government can't allow it.

Not teachers, not unions - government on the advice of SAGE.

Do patients in hospital (who are infinitely more dangerous to others than children) wear PPE at all times? Inhabitants of nursing homes? No.

Patients in hospital do - I went in last week and had to wear a mask and the staff I saw were all wearing full PPE.

Our guidance is that people with specific concerns relating to their own conditions should wfh where possible and be in, with additional attention to social distancing if it's not possible.

Anyone who is required but not in should be considered to be on unauthorised unpaid leave. However, we know if we take that line they will go on paid sick leave. At least while we accomdate them, they are doing "something" and in some cases can actually be very useful, delivering lessons remotely into classrooms.

There is no guidance at all on staff who are parents without childcare, which is by far the largest group of school staff unable to attend.

How can people go on paid sick leave when they're not ill?

This kind of stuff doesn't help.

They are sick, with anxiety. They are being advised to seek support from their GP for their anxiety in these cases. In an ideal world, the GP would support and alay fears, provide some treatment, they'd feel much better and be back to work but we know what it actually means is they will be signed off.

Hearhooves - its bizarre on mumsnet the last few days. Everyone is hounding teachers and blaming them for something the government has decided in order to keep everyone safe....

Whose interest is it to blame teachers?

If it's "near on impossible to social distance in schools" (I assume people are talking primary only?). So we shouldn't try. Then why should we try anywhere else?