What would you actually like the government to do on schools.

[StatisticalSense]

The demands on this site with regards to schooling are simply incompatible. Schools physically do not have the room or staff to reopen to their normal numbers of pupils with any form of social distancing in place, so it clearly isn't possible to get all kids back to school full time with social distancing in place.
What exactly would you like the government to be doing on schools that is actually feasible?

Oh and I am very angry that parents are asking why their children aren't getting the education they deserve. Education starts at home. So much to learn from the world around them at the moment. Schools are their to help guide them through their exams.

How many are challenging the dire history we have been spouting out in schools for decades?

How many parents so concerned know about generationlockdown?

I am very frustrated that people are so resistant to considering anything new

Why?

All kids back, parents complain lack of social distancing
Live lessons, parents complain lack of devices or internet
Some back, parents complain it’s not their kids
TAs taking classes - parents complain their kid being taught by some uneducated moron (according to these boards)

Set up Marques - parents complain about lack of washing or toilets.

Set up bubbles, poor Johnny not with his friends

Mass classrooms in gym halls, parents complain kids can’t hear, teacher doesn’t have time for questions

Who’s fault is it?

It's not always resistence for the sake of it.

Many schools are underfunded to begin with. THere was a massive cut back to funding last year or the year before. This meant schools had to let staff go.

How many parents used to moan constantly about the school at it again wanting more money. Because they needed funds for equipment, books etc. I mean think about that one for a moment, a school that needs help to put books in the library.

Oh they can work during holidays, forgetting how many of them have been working since half the UK went to Italy for their jolllies. Or on one of those three cruises.

Telling bfing teachers yea get in front of the camera and teach. It's fine. Let's see how fine that will be when the classes open and teacher takes baby to work. I mean if they can look after their children whilst on screen, then this should continue when schools open. Think how many women that would keep in work if we can all take our babies and toddlers with us. Parents won't mind learning was disrupted because miss was walking up and down with the baby crying.

Afterall the lack of education in the schools that are open doesn't seem to be an issue.

Portacabins - how would this work with schools that don’t have much outside space? Those inner city schools?

Typical negativity.

There is no one solution that will be right for all schools. Portacabins are an option for schools with space. For schools in inner city areas, I'm sure there'll be nearby church halls, community centres, libraries, etc that will have space. Each school will need to come up with solutions that suits it.

I'm convinced some teachers expect Boris to visit their school personally to come up with an action plan! How about local authorities, heads and governing bodies start to be proactive and look for solutions rather than problems?

Small businesses, shops, etc have generally been able to work things out for themselves to get back open and operating in some capacity. Why can't schools/teachers show some initiative and be proactive?

I would like it if the schools would accept children back based on need rather than bringing back certain year groups. My 5 year old who has autism is better off being at home until things are back to something resembling normal instead of us being told he should come back part time, then changing the dates etc. His place could then be used by a child in another year group whose parents are struggling or who need to go back to work.

Kazzyhoward you have demonstrated in your post above that you know nothing whatsoever about the practicalities of running a school.

Why don’t you tell us what your job is and, although I almost certainly know nothing about it, I’ll tell you all about how you’re doing it wrong?

Oh and the strikes. When they go on them because they are trying to fight to educate all your children equally. When they have been hit with yet another cut back.

Oh those lazy teachers.
How am I going to work whilst they sit at home doing nothing.
They are only after a pay rise.

They have too many holidays. Let's make the summer holiday shorter. That's why kids aren't learning or whatever.

So government says no more holidays during school term. Oh those bloody schools telling us when we can and cannot go on our family holiday. It's the only time we can get away because that's all we can afford. Mention lets give school staff the same option, erm no because well anything.

Still sound like something people will be queing up for around the block. How long before the support for the amazing nhs lasts before the vitriol is aimed at them again, although it's slowly starting to seep through.

Community centres and libraries have been closed due to cutbacks in a lot of inner city areas. Many more will have to close because of local cut backs to pay for this.

Churches have the government allowed them to be open yet to their parisheners?

What is needed is investment within the educational system. It is not fit for purpose and hasn't been for a long time. This is down to the government and until they take notice there will always be swaiths of children who are let down.

We arent set up as a nation to be at home online. They only reason we are coping is because steps taken behind the scenes from these providers. Government knew about this.

They already knew thousands of schools simply don't have what it needed. They know this from looking at the schools and what happens when a student is absent for long periods of time because of health. If schools cannot cope with a few students how the hell anyone thought schools could do this to their 1000 pupils is beyond me. Those in education have been highlighting this sometimes they even strike, but instead government prefer to bury their heads in the sand and let everyone carry on bashing teachers.

All those things are exactly why a complete overhaul and some radical thinking is needed. There isn't enough money to deliver education properly the way we're trying to do it at the moment, covid or not. Education already costs £100bn pa, c. 6% of GDP, how much would be enough and how will you raise it?

And maybe he should come out his hiding place and visit these schools that cannot open. Let him and his advisors see for themselves. Maybe drag along those who have solutions for the impossible,

Maybe see if some of the parents will let them have a look around their homes, and I don't just mean minimum wage families.

And this nonsense about shop workers etc haven't got the virus.
So erm who are the NHS. staff, bus drivers, tube drivers etc who have died from doing their job? How many of those who died were shop workers etc? Exactly you don't know you only know about the lives of those in the news. But have we heard the lives of the 60k+ who have died?

*I think this was the number yesterday when the latest ons figures came out. Tbh I stopped looking when the government changed how pathologists could record.

There is no one solution that will be right for all schools. Portacabins are an option for schools with space. For schools in inner city areas, I'm sure there'll be nearby church halls, community centres, libraries, etc that will have space. Each school will need to come up with solutions that suits it.

How many schools are there in one area? How many church halls, libraries, scout huts in the same area?

A two form entry school will need 14 additional spaces (maybe more if KW children are in their own bubble). So that's 14 extra separate spaces, for one primary school. Within a short walk of where I live there are 5 primary schools, two and three form entry.

How many spare buildings do you think there are? That doesn't take into consideration toilets, space to play, staff room, equipment, safety of students ie first aid provision and staff.

Just chucking out suggestions isn't very helpful.

We manage to build additional hospitals in two weeks
We manage to recruit thousands of retired health workers to boost provision and serve again in the NHS.
We recruit nearly a million community support volunteers, who then don’t have enough to do.
We build a testing system pretty much from scratch.
We accelerate vaccine development to compress into months what normally takes five years.
In the private sector, online delivery workers keep logistics moving and food and other supplies running. Not to mention companies like Amazon, who help keep the whole show on the road.

I work in the aid sector. In any emergency, you focus on what you can do, not what you can’t. Find solutions, navigate barriers,

So I am really taken aback at the level of negativity around getting kids back into school. So much more could be done - see all the solutions proposed here.

The govt need to get moving on a plan, and quickly. More pressure on the sector including the unions. More listening to the Children’s Commissioner, who seems to be one of the few putting the needs of the kids first. Less words, more action.

Kazzy,

For a secondary school to open under current guidelines, 3 whole schools'-worth of classroom-sized spaces need to be found, and equipped.

For each primary, you need to double the size of each school, so for each school, you need an extra schools'-worth of spaces.

All with hot and cold water, good toilets and appropriate furniture and equipment.

It's not going to happen.

What matters is driving down the infection rate, hard, through lockdown and track and trace. Extracting every morsel of data from current partial openings to assess and quantify actual risk. Engaging widely with well-respected educationalists, heads and local authorities to create a clear plan within the next week or two, that is well thought through and doesn't change, for a combined economy of in and out of school learning for September, and provide a set of clear checkpoints when additional data from ongoing studies may inform changes to that plan. Setting an end date for keyworker childcare, to release those spaces for everyone. Reviewing online learning tools used so far, including Oak Academy and the BBC, and aligning them rigorously to the national curriculum and the exam syllabuses to make them a genuine high quality alternative to being in school, thus releasing the full cohort of teachers to teach in school, knowing that their pupils are also well-supported when at home. Setting up hubs in local libraries and town halls where computers are available for those families without them, or without enough. Engaging with social services to look after vulnerable children, freeing up schools to focus purely on the educational challenge.

Single income model is surely a euphemism for women losing their jobs? Given that men are the higher earners in most families.

I don't think we should go down that route, and not just on feminist grounds. It would take a long time for prices to reduce to accommodate single incomes, with a lot of families being made homeless, and living in poverty in the meantime.

Also a lot of teachers would have to give up their jobs, which would make school staffing even trickier.

Here 3 schools all within 10 minutes walking distance, couple of thousands students. Not sure about teachers and of course 1-2-1's etc.

One very small community centre that is being propped up by local community oh and the adventure playground for the past 3 or 4 years. Cutbacks.

Churches I'm not religious so I wouldn't know, but doesn't really seem to be many around.

Used to be 4 schools. One the ground was sold off, school flattened and of course luxury housing in an area with high unemployment. No new schools or anything built. A part of the deal to tackle the parking issue involved a part of the green space available on the condition the trees stayed. So of course, 3 local schools to take on an areas that ideally needs 5. Many before this without a school place because no school in this borough and surrounding burroughs who have the same problems.

Not everything you see on your screens is fake. Most of it displays real life. Poverty. Over crowding etc.

But yea it's all down to the fault of the teachers. I shall take my negativities with me because well realities of live for millions of children aren't important as long as a few have their childcare education sorted.

So I am really taken aback at the level of negativity around getting kids back into school

Those of us working in education for any length of time know that whereas the government were prepared to throw money at hospitals to help ‘save lives’, no additional level of funding will be made available to open schools.

This means that whilst some these suggestions ‘might‘ work if supported by wodges of cash, we know they won’t be.

Walkingwounded

They didn't build new hospitals - they converted existing buildings into patient housing warehouses. They wouldn't function as a normal hospital.

They haven't compressed vaccine production into a few months because they don't have a successful vaccine yet. Only when they have one that works and is safe can you tell us how quickly they did it.

The track and trace system has been largely abandoned and they've now moved on to the port relation - test and trace.

So, you're looking at this through rose tinted spectacles.

realities of live for millions of children aren't important as long as a few have their childcare education sorted

It's not about the bloody few. It's about the many. It's about getting the poor kids with the shit home lives in the shit areas back into school. It's about engaging them NOW and giving them a future. Some vulnerable children might NEVER return to school.

This is not just a child care issue it is a welfare issue.

Making parents (mothers) jobless is only going to exacerbate the issue.

Just as a question - is there ANY school that hasn;'t opened due to union action?

I know of schools not opening because of local authority or local health service advice. Schools opening partially due to parents' fears. Schools opening partially because of lack of space. Schools having to close due to infection. Schools not having enough non-shielding staff. I don't know of any where it is actually the union preventing the re-opening?

Social distancing down to 1m (pointless anyway) and get children back into school on a rota basis

They need the structure, the need to be taught properly and they need to socialise

Parents who have been unable to work need to get back to work

(I do know that the unions have been very clear in pointing out the errors and inconsistencies in the government's approach, and asking the key questions. However I don't know of any schools where union action has prevented an otherwise willing, able and advised by the local authorities to open school from opening)

Who asked for no rotas? The government.

What is currently preventing rotas? A combination of the government advice and the ongoing need for full time keyworker childcare. It is entirely possible that the school I work in will ONLY be able to offer keyworker childcare come September, since over 50% of children are eligible for it....and almost all will want it full time. No chance for any other child to attend.

@Kazzyhoward

Portacabins - how would this work with schools that don’t have much outside space? Those inner city schools?

Typical negativity.

There is no one solution that will be right for all schools. Portacabins are an option for schools with space. For schools in inner city areas, I'm sure there'll be nearby church halls, community centres, libraries, etc that will have space. Each school will need to come up with solutions that suits it.

I'm convinced some teachers expect Boris to visit their school personally to come up with an action plan! How about local authorities, heads and governing bodies start to be proactive and look for solutions rather than problems?

Small businesses, shops, etc have generally been able to work things out for themselves to get back open and operating in some capacity. Why can't schools/teachers show some initiative and be proactive?

A quick google search and calculation for my school alone - we'd need 55 portacabins at 20,000 each (that was a used one, they're won't be enough second hand ones, but lets assume there are).

That's over a million pounds for one school. That's ignoring the staffing costs.

I get 8 glue sticks to last a year and teach about 300 kids.

Social distancing down to 1m (pointless anyway) and get children back into school on a rota basis

Yet Patrick Valance explained in the daily briefing today why they can't reduce the 2 metres yet - numbers of new infections are too high and reducing SD space increases the risk of transmission too much.

That isn't teachers, schools or unions being awkward ,- that's scientists reviewing the evidence and making a decision.

Are you better qualified than the SAGE scientists to make this decision?

@Kittywampus I don't want to see that model either, but the Tories will see all that as cheaper than providing the necessary to open schools to all children full time with social distancing guidelines adhered to.

Risk assessments are about chance of event multiplied by severity of event. At the moment, the chance of an outbreak on school is quite high, and the potential severity to vulnerable staff, parents and the community is also high. It doesn't matter how low the risk is to children here - the fact of them and their parents being out and about raise the risk and its inevitable consequences to staff in schools and parents / community as the children go home to their houses.

At some point, the infection level will be low enough that the chance x severity will be overall low. But right now, the risk is too high for a school to open - that's not teachers / union whining but the science of PHE and the government.

No matter how many people wring their hands over the closures, the fact remains that no employer at all will be willing to open fully in conditions like this, because they will quickly face so many lawsuits that the business will not be able to run. Any business which deliberately ignored Covid guidelines is likely to face fines or lawsuits. It's the same in schools. We locked down late and poorly, and the infection rates are falling too slowly for a risk assessment that lets people work as before to be written yet.

Plus, it's noisy in here but it ain't outside. Less than half the eligible children have elected to return to our school and the polls consistently show a majority of parents are in support of the decision to close. It's so hard.