How/when did the tide turn on schools?

[LaceCurtains]

In the beginning the mood here was almost desperate calling for schools to be closed.

In the last week or so there's been a marked shift to getting them open (from peope here).

Is it the same people who wanted the closed, now calling for them to get back to normal or have the original campaigners gone quiet/new people got louder?

FWIW I always thought schools closed as early as they did because of public pressure and it seems to me that "other" things are getting back to normal more quickly than originally planned/expected (because of DC and the need to distract?) but schools don't seem to be included in that.

I'm at a loss as to why schools are being treated so differently. I'm SLT in school, if that makes a difference and the government guidance is a shambles. Changes daily but doesn't seem to have any clear aim.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Of course I don't. But teachers do. And no government would be daft enough to stamp its feet and order teachers back to work

Ok you believe that if it makes you feel better but you're deluded if you think whilst the whole world gets back to normal teachers are going to be pandered to and allowed to wfh indefinitely meaning nobody gets a proper education.

But that's not what I said. Don't put words in my mouth.

The whole world will not get back to normal for months. Only a fool would think so. Social distancing will be part of normal life for a very long time yet.

So schools will be part time when they do go back. Hopefully, there will be some planning over the summer for how this will happen. But at the rate the government changes their minds I have my doubts.

[quote mintandcoral]@sashagabadon so what you're actually saying is that teachers don't care about their kids? Because if they did they would have taught them regardless of government policy. When hospital treatments and operations were stopped because of the pandemic, should doctors and surgeons continued to have treated patients 'regardless' of government policy to show that they still care about their patients? Does the fact that they stopped treatment mean they don't care about their patients?[/quote]
again, that is totally silly argument. You do understand COVID is a medical issue and hospitals were required to treat the problem.
Nothing to do with schools and in fact they did stay open - so why couldn't they teach the kids that were in them? There is no medical reason for this I can see - I can see a political reason though.
I am normally a big teacher/ school supporter, I am not a troublesome parent, I support my kids school BUT on this I am unhappy as I feel unions/ labour could have done more to support teaching in schools and could 100% do more to work with the GOV in gettin schools open again and not being obstructive. That is a fair point for me to make as a parent and a keyworker that has been listening to the union representatives on the radio giving 101 reasons why they can't do this and can't do that - while working in a hospital where the exact opposite mindset is in place.
It is frustrating to me that I can Labour challenging the GOV on schools BUT to encourage them to do as little as poss rather than the opposite.

Anyway, we are where we are... @mintandcoral what is your view on schools staying open for keyworkers/ others over the summer hols? Are you in support?

But that's not what I said. Don't put words in my mouth

That is literally exactly what you said.

The whole world will not get back to normal for months. Only a fool would think so. Social distancing will be part of normal life for a very long time yet

I never said "normal" ofc social distancing will continue I've never said otherwise but I don't think they'll leave schools closed for as long as social distancing exists.

So schools will be part time when they do go back. Hopefully, there will be some planning over the summer for how this will happen. But at the rate the government changes their minds I have my doubts

You don't know that (unless you're in Scotland) nobody knows what will happen in September yet.

mintandcoral the normal death rate is 1500 per day. Covid deaths are in addition to these deaths so as it stands we are now liaising between 50 to 150 people daily to Covid and still losing1500 daily to other causes. So yes there are more deaths from non Covid than Covid. Obviously during April Covid deaths exceeded non Covid.
If I had shielding household then I would be following the rules. But I’m not, a smaller percentage of the population with school age children are in shielding households than are not so in a democratic society we should be allowing the majority to carry on while supporting the minority to continue shielding.
I am in a vulnerable category but have risk assessed and take the relevant measures to protect myself. The risk of me dying of Covid is less than 1% I’m happy to live with that what I’m not happy to live with is lockdown indefinitely.

@Trainersmum have you talked to your school? One of my neighbours 13 year olds was becoming withdrawn and not speaking so she spoke to the school and they're talking him back a couple of days a week with the key workers kids.

[quote mintandcoral]@sashagabadon so what you're actually saying is that teachers don't care about their kids? Because if they did they would have taught them regardless of government policy. When hospital treatments and operations were stopped because of the pandemic, should doctors and surgeons continued to have treated patients 'regardless' of government policy to show that they still care about their patients? Does the fact that they stopped treatment mean they don't care about their patients?[/quote]
by the way, in my hospital alone, hundreds of staff were redeployed into clinical and non-clinical areas totally alien to them - nurses were trained into brand new areas, and became ITU ready, admin staff trained up as bed buddies, cleaners, HCA's, surgeons became COVID doctors, estates staff totally re-jigged the hospital in days, 300 staff offered to move into hotels so they could work in the new nightingale hospital in my city understanding they could not see their families for the foreseeable future
and yet teachers were told they could not teach keyworker kids i(n school) struggling with their show my homework work.

anyway, as I said I do support schools and teachers, I know they work hard.
I just think on this , the unions and labour have failed some kids / schools (and the teachers too to some degree as i understand they do what they are asked to do so my argument is not with them. _

anyway we need to move on - and I think a good start would be for schools to remain open during the summer hols at the very least and start working with the GOV etc as constructively as poss for September.

I find it odd that you keep putting the blame on the Labour Party and the unions - all whilst minimising the influence and power of the Conservatives/Government. I don't see any sign of the Government prioritising schools and being held back.

@Notonthestairs

I find it odd that you keep putting the blame on the Labour Party and the unions - all whilst minimising the influence and power of the Conservatives/Government. I don't see any sign of the Government prioritising schools and being held back.

then you must never listen to the radio or watch the TV. It is all I can see. Labour and Unions just argue the total opposite of whatever the GOV says and it is tiresome and frustrating.

[quote mintandcoral]@GazeboParty if students still in school were being taught still the gap would widen even further.[/quote]
I’m curious - for the schools where the teachers who have fully engaged with online learning, who are working hard all day with their classes - what are you doing with the Key worker children at your schools? Are they just getting childcare while all their classmates are getting the full distanced learning experience at home?

For better or worse the Government are in charge! 80 majority. Can do whatever they like - or whatever the science tells them.
Labour and the unions have zero influence over the Conservatives policies or SAGE.

Key worker children have been split in to infants and juniors and are being taught by teachers. Teachers log on to their classes at the beginning and end of the day.

I’m getting tired and frustrated with the whole bloody lot of them - Gov, stories, Unions, Labour, schools, teachers sort your shit out, and start putting the kids first - maybe just a bit!

I don't see how it's feasible to expect teachers (and children) to work over the summer. I have been working since lockdown and so have my colleagues. Teachers would need to be paid for this extra work. There is already a big debate about this over on another thread and people have expressed it far more eloquently than I can.

I am tired to my very bones of defending my profession and being accused of being lazy or not caring about the children I teach. If I added up all of the unpaid hours I had worked, full weekends spent marking, money from my own pocket I had spent on resources to ensure that deprived students succeed I would be owed a lot. I know that this is the case of most teachers I know. There really is a reason the teaching profession has such a high turnover.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3934717-wtaf-schools?pg=16

@sashagabadon what do you expect schools to do. They are literally following government guidance.

Exactly @Notonthestairs - it's not labour or the unions who haven't reopened schools. I don't know what people expect. This is the reality of the virus. Yes it's rubbish, but people need to stop trying to pass the blame onto people who have no control over this situation.

@ThatBitch your school is correct- there is nothing they can do. They can't just reopen because you say they should. This is a decision made by government. Complain to them.

what a ridiculous thing to say. Of course it's a priority. The laptops the government promised us still haven't materialised. Blame them! We have still managed to send some laptops to homes using our own provision. My school has also been working flat out each week getting paper copies of work delivered to students without access to resources. No we're not using it as an excuse not to set work. Again, how could you possibly know that schools aren't coming up with plans and that this isn't a priority.

I'm talking about my chidlren's school - not all schools and gone on what they've said to us.

We have had no paper copies from our schools.

Frankly I'm sick and tired of my kids experinces being dismissed as some kind of anomaly when clearly it's not.

Frankly many post like this have made posters like me usually very sympathitc to teachers bloody frustrated and hugley less sympathtic to teachers and schools in general..-

And yes I do blame The UK government and the welsh government and I've let them know that.

@mintandcoral

I don't see how it's feasible to expect teachers (and children) to work over the summer. I have been working since lockdown and so have my colleagues. Teachers would need to be paid for this extra work. There is already a big debate about this over on another thread and people have expressed it far more eloquently than I can.

I am tired to my very bones of defending my profession and being accused of being lazy or not caring about the children I teach. If I added up all of the unpaid hours I had worked, full weekends spent marking, money from my own pocket I had spent on resources to ensure that deprived students succeed I would be owed a lot. I know that this is the case of most teachers I know. There really is a reason the teaching profession has such a high turnover.

I'm going to be working over the summer and have been working throughout . I am tired too and my son and daughter has had very little education whilst I have been doing so. At the very least, schools should remain open for keyworker kids and start actually teaching them.

Not all teachers would need to be in - presumably the same as now and work on a similar rota , 2 days a week or whatever.

I really hope the unions/labour support this , this is almost exactly the best cause they could get behind , who could argue against it?- it will be interesting to watch and see what I hear the Unions say on this and will tell me exactly whose side they are on.

@enjoyingSun why should I be blamed for your schools failings? It's illogical. I'm sorry that you've had no paper copies from your school but that doesn't detract from the fact that ours have sent out paper copies. You need to take this up with your own school.

What I'm sick of is people posting on mumsnet with their complaints about specific teachers and schools when it doesn't apply to the majority of teachers or schools. It does nothing but create ill will towards school staff who are doing their best during this crisis (often while caring for families of their own).

Why do people keep going on about teachers refusing to go back to work? We've all gone back to work as soon as we've been asked to at my primary school except the diabetic teacher and the one with cancer. I'm in teaching a bubble of children that are not my class and also managing remote learning for my own pupils at home.

Where are all these teachers who are refusing to go back? Schools aren't open to all children because of operating around the new guidelines but teachers are still there working.

@Notonthestairs

For better or worse the Government are in charge! 80 majority. Can do whatever they like - or whatever the science tells them. Labour and the unions have zero influence over the Conservatives policies or SAGE.

but they need to work with GOV/ SAGE - at the moment, they are doing the opposite and being as difficult as poss

That is my main point

@sashagabadon and I presume you will be paid for this work you do over the summer and that you will still be entitled to your holiday over the next year.

I'm seriously done with this thread!

@mintandcoral Teachers would need to be paid for this extra work.

What if teachers were paid extra to work in the summer? Would you consider it a possibility then?

I'm on the fence about summer schooling but certainly wouldn't expect staff to work for nothing.

I'd be more inclined to feel it wasn't necessary if there was more certainty over the provision from September onwards.

I don't have childcare of my own so I don't know how it would be manageable for me but I can't speak for other teachers.