How/when did the tide turn on schools?

[LaceCurtains]

In the beginning the mood here was almost desperate calling for schools to be closed.

In the last week or so there's been a marked shift to getting them open (from peope here).

Is it the same people who wanted the closed, now calling for them to get back to normal or have the original campaigners gone quiet/new people got louder?

FWIW I always thought schools closed as early as they did because of public pressure and it seems to me that "other" things are getting back to normal more quickly than originally planned/expected (because of DC and the need to distract?) but schools don't seem to be included in that.

I'm at a loss as to why schools are being treated so differently. I'm SLT in school, if that makes a difference and the government guidance is a shambles. Changes daily but doesn't seem to have any clear aim.

Are they teaching them though? I thought they were just providing childcare!

Did I say teaching? I said working.

@DomDoesWotHeWants

It's daft to think If the government said schools can and should open as normal, that they simply just wouldn't.

You are very naive if you really believe this. As if any work force would go back to work because Johnson told them to. If they believed it was dangerous they wouldn't. He knows that and isn't daft enough to try it.

Ahahahhaa. No, you are very naive.

How many doctors and nurses refused to work? They wouldn't have been paid because "unsafe"

Two words.

Miners strike.

I am hoping schools will stay open over the summer hols - for keyworkers and others if people wnat to send their kids. I would like to see Labour vocally and actively support this and advocating for this with children at the heart of this message that they will send to the teaching unions. I can hardly thinks schools would have much of a leg on to argue against this as schools do not need a summer break this year (and I totally agree they do every other year)
They can ask all the teachers that have been in ireland and down the park to step in so those hard working teachers that have been working with the keyworker kids can have a holiday / break.
This would be a labour position I would really get behind and love to see and I think should be their position in all this.
Will it happen? or will labour only care about the unions? That will tell me a lot about what labour really stands for.

Miners strike.

Miners' strike. Relevance? I don't remember them being ordered back, perhaps you could provide evidence that they were. Good luck finding what doesn't exist.

Hahahahahahahaha

@DomDoesWotHeWants

Are they teaching them though? I thought they were just providing childcare!

Did I say teaching? I said working.

my son tells me they are sitting on their phones!

@DomDoesWotHeWants

Are they teaching them though? I thought they were just providing childcare!

Did I say teaching? I said working.

You did say working. Teachers are working - we expect when you say that, that they'd be teaching, I'm just clarifying and I think we need to be very clear, teachers are not teaching and that is why people are so angry. Just so you know. And I'll say before is gets said - not all of them some clearly are.

@DomDoesWotHeWants

Miners strike.

Miners' strike. Relevance? I don't remember them being ordered back, perhaps you could provide evidence that they were. Good luck finding what doesn't exist.

Hahahahahahahaha

They weren't ordered back. They were told to get fucked essentially. Their whole industry was closed down practically overnight. The government didn't care about their safety.

Do you think the government care about teachers safety? Really?

Because miners worked in a really unsafe environment. Teachers don't.

@sashagabadon if you think the work that has been set is not good enough, take it up with your childrens school. Instead of writing about it online and tarnishing all teachers in the entire country with the same brush.

People seem to think the schools have engineered this situation? The government have repeatedly said that they are following the science and the science says that they can only fully open schools under certain conditions. At the end of the day, if they don't ensure these conditions people will die. It's not ideal, but as they keep saying, these are unprecedented times. This is a worldwide pandemic.

I'm not denying that education is important, noone is. Times are hard. People have died. Yes we need to come up with solutions, which is exactly what schools are trying to do.

@GazeboParty if students still in school were being taught still the gap would widen even further.

DS yr 10 is currently having live online maths lesson via Microsoft Teams. School set up IT over Easter break and hit the ground running.
We chose to privately educate DS and at times it has stretched us financially but I don’t regret the decision particularly in the current situation.
It is unfair that this years yr10 are missing so much vital face to face teaching. I am aware that curriculum has been put on hold for many, and privately educated children, whose schools have chosen to ignore this, will have an unfair advantage next year, but it will be the government who will have to address the situation.
As a healthcare clinician who has been presented with a totally unworkable return to work “roadmap” I can understand the general reluctance of teachers to return to work. But we have decided to use our common sense, something desk bound civil servants don’t possess. Most of the Standard Operating Procedures don’t stand up to common sense scrutiny and having had years of being presented with the ideas of idiots we are following our standard procedures which have for the last 3 decades prevented spread of pretty much every other infectious disease presented to us.
Lockdown is destroying society and I think we need to just get on life. I know a couple of people who have died of Covid but I know of far more people who have died of other reasons during lockdown. Their deaths are totally undermined, their family’s loss is just as important but does seem to be trivialised because it’s not Covid.

Do you think the government care about teachers safety? Really?

Of course I don't. But teachers do. And no government would be daft enough to stamp its feet and order teachers back to work.

Teachers were told by the government not to teach the children of key workers. Surely everybody know that? That's why they aren't teaching - it's Government policy. You don't like it? Have a word with Bozo.

@sashagabadon again, you make assumptions about exactly what teachers have been doing. Assumptions on things you could not possibly know anything about. Absurd. I hope your teacher 'friend' in Ireland realises you are no friend.

@DomDoesWotHeWants exactly.

Of course I don't. But teachers do. And no government would be daft enough to stamp its feet and order teachers back to work

Ok you believe that if it makes you feel better but you're deluded if you think whilst the whole world gets back to normal teachers are going to be pandered to and allowed to wfh indefinitely meaning nobody gets a proper education.

[quote mintandcoral]@GazeboParty if students still in school were being taught still the gap would widen even further.[/quote]
that's a silly argument that I am tired of hearing. You do understand that keyworker kids are going into school as their parents are keyworkers and therefore at work don;t you?
Nurses are working 12 hour shifts - their kids may be able to go to "school" but as their is no teaching actually going on AND they do not have loads of free time to "homeschool" them, their kids are missing out twice.
At the VERY least the keyworkers kids should be getting taught by the teachers as they are the ones at a disadvantage due to getting no (or minimal) homeschooling as their parents are working.
Please don't use that argument - it is very insulting to keyworkers.

The gap could well be wider between keyworker kids and others that can be homeschooled and the school should have carried on with teaching these kids. Again, the unions are totally to blame for this as they advised their teacher not to teach (some - NOT all)

@oralengineer you say this like this means that there are more people dying from reasons other than covid. Which just isn't true.

I wonder what your stance would be if you were in a highly vulnerable group or one of your children were.

@sashagabadon I'll just reitterate what @DomDoesWotHeWants said- it's government policy.

@TrustTheGeneGenie 'pandered to' Teachers aren't keeping the schools closed. The government is- because if they open schools too soon there is enough evidence to suggest that we will have a second wave and large numbers of people will die. But of course, the real problem is just lazy, 'pampered' school staff refusing to go back to work

[quote mintandcoral]@TrustTheGeneGenie 'pandered to' Teachers aren't keeping the schools closed. The government is- because if they open schools too soon there is enough evidence to suggest that we will have a second wave and large numbers of people will die. But of course, the real problem is just lazy, 'pampered' school staff refusing to go back to work [/quote]
Oh, I know they aren't. In fact it was Dom who suggested they just simply wouldn't open schools even if the government said they should, not me. What does that suggest?

What's this evidence because nobody knows whether schools can or will cause a second wave? Do you have some kind of inside info?

We don't know whether there will be a second wave full stop let alone whether opening schools can single handedly cause one.

[quote mintandcoral]**@sashagabadon* I'll just reitterate what @DomDoesWotHeWants* said- it's government policy.[/quote]
but my point is - if teachers cared about the kids they would help them "regardless" of GOV policy. If the teaching unions had said NO , we WILL teach the keyworker kids, we WANT to teach the key worker kids - do you think anyone would have stopped them?
But, they didn't - they actively encouraged their teachers NOT to teach,
Which as I said, is so opposite of the position I would have thought Labour/ Unions/ Teachers would take. It seems so arse about face.
it would be like a doctor refusing to treat a patient or a nurse.
I can't understand the position Labour has taken with education at all - i am a labour supporter.
It can only be political other wise what is the other explanation for refusing to teach keyworker kids? Why?
If it was GOV policy why didn't Labour/ Unions keep up a big fuss? I didn;t see anyone doing this and I wanted them to - just the EXACT opposite

My 8yo cries every day about how sad she is, how much she misses her friends and teachers. She is so depressed. I am using all my abilities to help her, structured activities, FaceTime with her friends, lots of talking, hugs, working on relaxation techniques etc, but it isn't enough. She has had no contact from her school since this began. The numbers do not support the amount of stress this ongoing situation is causing her. Since this began, there has been 0 deaths in our area and only 2 in the adjoining, more urban area.

@sashagabadon so what you're actually saying is that teachers don't care about their kids? Because if they did they would have taught them regardless of government policy. When hospital treatments and operations were stopped because of the pandemic, should doctors and surgeons continued to have treated patients 'regardless' of government policy to show that they still care about their patients? Does the fact that they stopped treatment mean they don't care about their patients?

@ThatBitch this is an individual and school problem, not a mumsnet problem. You need to get in contact with her school and ask why they haven't been in touch. Teachers can't speak on behalf of all schools.

if teachers cared about the kids they would help them "regardless" of GOV policy. If the teaching unions had said NO , we WILL teach the keyworker kids, we WANT to teach the key worker kids - do you think anyone would have stopped them?
But, they didn't - they actively encouraged their teachers NOT to teach,
Which as I said, is so opposite of the position I would have thought Labour/ Unions/ Teachers would take. It seems so arse about face.

Absolutely

mintandcoral none of this is a 'Mumsnet' problem. Nowhere have I blamed 'mumsnet' or asked 'Mumsnet' to fix it. I have been in touch repeatedly with the school via email to be told there is nothing they can do. I am still saying that (like many others on this thread) I believe the schools should be looking to reopen to all pupils. Our area has not been badly affected. The ONS numbers support this. Maybe it should be more of a localised approach? But it is stupefying to me that 'non-essential' retail can reopen but children cannot go back to school on some basis.