How/when did the tide turn on schools?

[LaceCurtains]

In the beginning the mood here was almost desperate calling for schools to be closed.

In the last week or so there's been a marked shift to getting them open (from peope here).

Is it the same people who wanted the closed, now calling for them to get back to normal or have the original campaigners gone quiet/new people got louder?

FWIW I always thought schools closed as early as they did because of public pressure and it seems to me that "other" things are getting back to normal more quickly than originally planned/expected (because of DC and the need to distract?) but schools don't seem to be included in that.

I'm at a loss as to why schools are being treated so differently. I'm SLT in school, if that makes a difference and the government guidance is a shambles. Changes daily but doesn't seem to have any clear aim.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

And to the poster who threw their Yr 6 child’s suicidal threats into the mix and blamed me, nah, not having that. An 11 yr old who is having mental health difficulties to that extent has way more going on than their school closing. I sincerely hope you are able to stop deflecting blame onto a pandemic and that they get the help they need flowers

That is hugely fucking offensive and likely bollocks. You should be ashamed of yourself.

You think it’s a normal and proportionate response to a school closing that an 11yr old talks of suicide? That would raise huge welfare concerns for me. Like I said, I hope that gets the help they need. All the schools suddenly going back to normal from next week would not fix whatever problems they have.

I would like to say something without being shouted at, as it's not a common opinion. I would however, like to learn, have stuff pointed out (nicely) if my thinking is a bit off.

We closed from 23rd March. So 2 weeks of schools missed. Then Easter Holidays. Would have been back for 5 weeks. Then May half term. Then we're into another week right now.

So at the moment, kids have lost out on just 8 weeks. I'm not sure I can understand all the repercussions of poverty education over 8 weeks missed? Not for primary schools anyway.

I do understand about mental health, I understand about vulnerable children etc but for the vast majority, we're talking about 8 weeks of schooling missed. Will that affect them forever?

In 5 more weeks, it'll be the Summer holidays, for 6 weeks.

I work in a secondary school. It closed due to the amount of staff falling ill, and the amount of parents who sent their child in with a cough OR fever and were not following government advice, which was to self isolate.

We've been open for key worker children, all throughout the holidays too.

I think (and I don't know if this will work) that ALL years should be allowed to return, if you meet certain criteria. The school needs to work out how many it can accommodate with social distancing, and have those places offered to those that need them. Not just ones that are bored at home, but one that would really benefit from being back.

Those who HAVE to have childcare to work.

I can keep my two younger ones at home, they do not need school places. Yes, they aren't doing a huge amount at home, but they are only little (5 and 9) plenty of time to catch up. We do little bits each day.

Still don't see why we can't have lessons on TV, and not the bitesize crap. Proper lessons.

I don't know what other secondary schools are doing but ours is working overtime and the students are mainly doing all the work set every day.

I think part of the frustration is that in many, many walks of life, we are seeing businesses and organisations make fast, effective changes. But that problem solving ability seems to be non-existent around schooling

Spot on. Businesses and other organisations have adapted but schools are just floundering about saying they don’t know what to do. I spoke to the head at my son’s school today and they had no clear plan at all, just kept saying it was difficult and they weren’t sure what the plan was. If, after 4 weeks of prep I said that to my clients I’d be out of a job pretty swiftly.

@Lostmyshityear9 who is actually blaming teachers for this though?

When people say 'schools should do this' 'teachers aren't doing enough', don't you think they are just frustrated at the system not adapting to put the education of children front and centre and just aren't taking the time to ensure it is worded properly.

I'm saddened and concerned about children's education at the moment. I'd never think to blame an individual school or teachers themselves for this mess.

And as an aside I do also think GPs need to reopen and as many hospital services as possible.
We are doing a lot of harm with our lockdown.

Who do I blame for all of this? The government of course!!

@thetoddleratemyhomework

The french science minister said yesterday that they should never have closed schools there and he wants full school ASAP. His view was that kids don't really transmit in the same way as adults. Hopefully the french will get their pupils back to school ASAP to set a precedent that we can follow.

So, some random bloke in France, whose credentials or politics we have no idea about, has stated his manly view and we're meant to follow suit, like lemmings? By the way, no French pupil is allowed back on school premises without a face mask, currently.

one important one is that they hired hundreds of extra staff in order to do this safely. Possible partly because Luxembourg is tiny and extremely wealthy! This meant that they could run smaller classes.

Why hasn't there been a clamor for more staff and resources so schools can open or more resources to offer more comprehensive distance learning - even on here it seem to be pushed onto parents to make up the educational short fall.

Not a teacher, but I am a primary school governor. As a school, we would LOVE to have all pupils back. However, currently we are trying to apply the 2m social distancing rules and that, very unfortunately, limits the number of times that even Years R,1 and 6 can come in every week.

Could those posters who would like the schools to reopen to everyone (for reasons that are entirely understandable), explain how ANY primary school could achieve that? If there is a fantastic way that we haven't thought of, we'd love to adopt it ...

@Iwalkinmyclothing

Totally agree. To be honest, one of the reasons schools are closed is because teachers are (on the whole) anti going back as normal and there isn't space or resources to do otherwise and one of the others is because if schools open people will be like "fuck this, if my kids are going to school, why shouldn't I.....".

Everyone should be prioritising education, not just the government. But they won't.

As I said before, I am hoping that other countries go back as normal soon so we can send the kids out.

Not a teacher, but I am a primary school governor. As a school, we would LOVE to have all pupils back. However, currently we are trying to apply the 2m social distancing rules and that, very unfortunately, limits the number of times that even Years R,1 and 6 can come in every week.

Why are you trying to apply the 2m rule? Primary schools don't have to, they just have to maintain the bubbles in isolation from each other. It's pretty worrying that there are schools out there fundamentally misunderstanding the guidelines and stopping children from coming back

I might of missed it somewhere but surely if the can knock up 3 hospitals in a few week they can knock up mobile classrooms.

But in order to do that the government would have to provide funding and hire staff - like Luxembourg - who recruited from University students and similar groups. Our government prefer to shift costs to individuals and private sectors wherever possible.

@CallmeAngelina

By french science minister I meant the chief scientist. You know, the one who designed their whole lockdown approach. On the basis of science. And he has now said that they were too restrictive

@Nighttimefreedom: yes that's true, I maybe do need to make it explicit. My parents both worked in education, I am a HUGE fan of teachers and will generally defend them against all comers. This is a failure primarily of those running the system and a lack of strong leadership: and years of poor funding which means that schools don't have the resources or personnel to cope (eg. our secondary school has very, very few skilled TAs - who could potentially have taken on a degree of teaching support; we have sold off much of our land so outdoor space is at a huge premium...)

Why are you trying to apply the 2m rule?

It seems important to keep that in mind, as studies show that
Being exposed to someone 'for a few seconds' at a one metre distance could equate to an hour of being two metres away, expert says
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/16/fresh-advice-two-meter-rule-workers/

I wonder if mumsnet would support a campaign on children’s right to a high quality education and put pressure on the government to pull together a plan on this ASAP? I don’t know how Mumsnet select their campaigns tho? Does anyone know?

The government needs a clear plan for September or this will just continue. Online education needs to be very high quality if it’s going to replace schools even part of the time. Ideally schools need to reopen to all those who want to attend and if they want social distancing they need to start now to acquire more classroom space ready for September. The planning needs to start now!

I grew up with a sexual abuser and my home always felt like a prison. Going to school was my only respite. No one ever knew what was going on at home, we were a lovely middle class family, so I wasn't on a register anywhere. I could absolutely cry for the children facing such enforced imprisonment with their abusers today because of the refusal to get ALL children back into school where they belong.

His name is Jean-Francois Delfraissy. He is the french chris Whitty. Good enough for you @CallmeAngelina?

I never called for them to be closed but prepared for it and warned others.. all of which at the time thought I was barking mad and it's was just flu.

We've locked down and got on with the school work and embraced our new normal. So much so I'm doubting sending my two back ever. I have however seen a shift on the school parents FB page.. they have been open for key worker children throughout, also now open full time for yr 6's and there's been 80% uptake on that. Now they are harping on about working through the summer and all kids back 🤷‍♀️ none of these teachers stopped working either online or in the class rooms looking after the KW children. There's rumbles and moans about how they will look after THEIR children during the summer.. oh and suddenly everyone is a bloody key worker.

Plenty of otherwise happy adults are now struggling with their mental health...I don't think it's surprising that children are too. Nearly three months now since mine have seen their friends...it's hugely isolating for them.

Like another poster on this thread, I'm the child of teachers.

I have been raised to have enormous respect for the work of teachers and for the importance of education.

I don't believe that most of the people claiming to be teachers on MN are actually teachers. I am shocked by the callous disregard for pupil welfare displayed by so many. It does not square at all with the dedicated professionals in my life, all of whom want schools reopened and are worried about their pupils missing so much education.

If they weren't part of denying my children an education, I would be highly amused and the ludicrous carry on of the teaching unions. They have handed the Tories the gift of parental fury at unions and teachers when this could and should have been an opportunity for them. Parents were full of praise for teachers at the start of lockdown. Turning that into the mistrust and anger you see today is just bananas.

And teachers will suffer for that, even the ones who are not in the unions. Even the ones who want to go back properly, even the ones who have gone back properly without complaint.

Because the comms has been a disaster. It has given the impression that unlike nurses, doctors, bin men, delivery drivers, shop assistants, care workers, teachers are uniquely reluctant to do their bit to get the UK moving again because of risks that are no worse for them than for anyone else who has to go out to work.

I have spent my life defending teacher strikes to pissed off parents and supporting the union demands for better pay and conditions for teachers.

I fully expected teachers to be the loudest voices insisting that schools went back and that education was a vital public service that we would need to restore ASAP.

I am unspeakably upset to find out that my children will be out if school for 6 months and that there is STILL no firm commitment to have them back full time in 3 months time.

I feel betrayed by any teacher who thinks it is acceptable for education to be disrupted to that extent for a virus this mild. I genuinely can't believe anybody thinks it is OK.

I don't detest teachers. I used to be one. I was raised by them. I come from a family of teachers.

I wonder how the usual teacher critics are feeling now, if a lifelong ally and natural supporter of teachers is as pissed off as I am.

Mocking parents for being worried about their children's welfare and making digs about resilience?

We've been locked down for nearly 3 months. All my resilience is spent. I am on my knees now. I have never in my life felt like I do now watching my children suffer from a lack of education and school.

And people who say they are teachers are claiming it's just too tricky to educate them and they'll just have to put job with it indefinitely until a mythical day of "safe" arrives. Which nobody can or will ever define.

@YounghillKang that's not the point. The point is the poster who is a governor has misunderstood the guidelines and is trying to achieve something that's not required and saying as a consequence they can't have all of the specified year groups back. I'd be pretty unhappy if I was a parent at that school.

@Iwantacookie

I might of missed it somewhere but surely if the can knock up 3 hospitals in a few week they can knock up mobile classrooms. They might not be perfect but as long as they are useable it would able children to get back to school.

Great idea in theory, but the issue is who will staff them. You've currently got one teacher with a class of 30 children. To split them into bubbles of 15, you'll need two teachers. Now, you could decide to use a teacher from another year, but what happens to providing home learning resources for that teacher's class? I know not every school is on it, but my OH teaches Y5 and every day he's setting maths, English and topic via Dojo and the kids get the work back to him by 4.30pm and he marks it overnight so they can see how they did the next day. If he's off teaching in a "Nightingale" classroom, who takes over his class, because he won't be able to do both unless he's expected to work until midnight every night marking both classes' work and planning lessons and have no time to spare for our child? As I said, great idea in theory though.

@snowballer

Not a teacher, but I am a primary school governor. As a school, we would LOVE to have all pupils back. However, currently we are trying to apply the 2m social distancing rules and that, very unfortunately, limits the number of times that even Years R,1 and 6 can come in every week.

Why are you trying to apply the 2m rule? Primary schools don't have to, they just have to maintain the bubbles in isolation from each other. It's pretty worrying that there are schools out there fundamentally misunderstanding the guidelines and stopping children from coming back

SAGE has said 2m distancing should be maintained in schools to minimise the risk. Not sure what misunderstanding there is.

To the poster asking why our primary school is (not uniquely) applying the 2m rule:

The answer is because we took the decision (having filled out a 65-page risk assessment) that this is how we would organise our school for the time being. We know what the government guidance says, but this guidance has been ever changing and unhelpfully late in the day. In this vacuum, we took our own decisions.

We may alter the social distancing aspirations, but surely this isn't the time to abolish them?

@JanetheObscure

Not a teacher, but I am a primary school governor. As a school, we would LOVE to have all pupils back. However, currently we are trying to apply the 2m social distancing rules and that, very unfortunately, limits the number of times that even Years R,1 and 6 can come in every week.

Could those posters who would like the schools to reopen to everyone (for reasons that are entirely understandable), explain how ANY primary school could achieve that? If there is a fantastic way that we haven't thought of, we'd love to adopt it ...

And again, getting back to school is one thing, with a lot of variables schools aren't in control over.

But having a viable online teaching strategy so the deficit isn't quite so large? What on earth is stopping that from being worked on?

@longwhiskers I completely understand staffing would be an issue. Only thing I could think of is using volenteers or uni students to oversee not teach and split the teachers up so maybe they teach one half of their class in the morning then the other half in the afternoon.
Obviously no idea if this would work in practice but just like everyone else I'm getting frustrated at lack of thinking about state school children from the government and trying to find solutions helps keep me sane.